Feral Mutagen question

[Karse]

This gives claws and bite to the Alchemist, but since this is not a spell from the polymorph subschool (Core Book Page 212) nor a druid in Wild Shape then he isnt proficient in natural attacks then?

The mutagen also says the claws and the bite are primary weapons this is a bit odd I guess. Usually someone have as primary attacks the claws or the bite but not both.

The part that says "using the alchemist full abse attack bonus" means? That he would incur in penalties for using all 3 attacks as a full round action, like he normally would for not having Multiattack feat (Bestiary Page 315)?

[Tharg The Pirate King]

Karse wrote:

This gives claws and bite to the Alchemist, but since this is not a spell from the polymorph subschool (Core Book Page 212) nor a druid in Wild Shape then he isnt proficient in natural attacks then?

The mutagen also says the claws and the bite are primary weapons this is a bit odd I guess. Usually someone have as primary attacks the claws or the bite but not both.

The part that says "using the alchemist full abse attack bonus" means? That he would incur in penalties for using all 3 attacks as a full round action, like he normally would for not having Multiattack feat (Bestiary Page 315)?

Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack’s original type.

Some creatures do not have natural attacks. These creatures can make unarmed strikes just like humans do. See Table: Natural Attacks by Size for typical damage values for natural attacks by creature size.

and

Multiattack (Monster)

This creature is particularly skilled at making attacks with its natural weapons.

Prerequisite: Three or more natural attacks.

Benefit: The creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take only a –2 penalty.

Normal: Without this feat, the creature's secondary attacks with natural weapons take a –5 penalty.

so as you can see there is no need for the feat since all the attacks are primary attacks. they are proficient.

[Karse]

Tharg The Pirate King wrote:

Karse wrote:

This gives claws and bite to the Alchemist, but since this is not a spell from the polymorph subschool (Core Book Page 212) nor a druid in Wild Shape then he isnt proficient in natural attacks then?

The mutagen also says the claws and the bite are primary weapons this is a bit odd I guess. Usually someone have as primary attacks the claws or the bite but not both.

The part that says "using the alchemist full abse attack bonus" means? That he would incur in penalties for using all 3 attacks as a full round action, like he normally would for not having Multiattack feat (Bestiary Page 315)?

Natural Attacks

Most creatures possess one or more natural attacks (attacks made without a weapon). These attacks fall into one of two categories, primary and secondary attacks. Primary attacks are made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and add the creature’s full Strength bonus on damage rolls. Secondary attacks are made using the creature’s base attack bonus –5 and add only 1/2 the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one. If a creature has only one type of attack, but has multiple attacks per round, that attack is treated as a primary attack, regardless of its type. Some creatures treat one or more of their attacks differently, such as Dragons, which always receive 1-1/2 times their Strength bonus on damage rolls with their bite attack. These exceptions are noted in the creature’s description.

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their available natural...

yah perhaps theres no need for Multiattack feat since all his natural attacks are primary attacks, but that still doesnt means he would have the Proficient Natural attack claw and Prof Natural attack bite. Since it doesnt says this anywhere.

A human is not proficient in natural attacks because he got none, so like you say he uses Unarmed Strikes in which case he needs Improved Unarmed Strike to eb considered armed and to do lethal damage.

So if this human Alchemist drinks a Mutagen, he gets claws and bite but no proficient on these or at least that what I was thinking since it doesnt specifically said so like in the Druids weapon entry or the Polymorph subschool. So would have the -4 penalty for not be proficient in natural attacks?

This is what I meant to ask. Sorry if I wasnt too clear on this.

[Qik]

I think you're over thinking. I've never seen anything to suggest that he isn't proficient in those attacks he gains from feral mutagen.

[Tharg The Pirate King]

There is no proficiency for natural attacks. I think you are overthinking it. You either have them or you dont. Once you get natural attacks throuch feats, magic etc you can use them.