Scotch, Scotch, Scotch


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Combining flavors is always tricky, it can be hard to predict if same-same or opposites will work better. For example, if pairing side-by-side, bourbon works better with most deserts. Like a shot of bourbon paired with a slice of pecan pie.

But using it as an ingredient, I can see how a Speyside would work better (especially a sherry cask aged one for a dessert) within a dish. It adds more bite and fruit, whereas a bourbon would mostly get lost behind the vanilla and brown sugar already being added. Thanks for sharing the recipe :D


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Irontruth wrote:
Andostre wrote:

I also recently read that the Arran distillery is the newest Scotland distillery, opening in 1995.

There's new ones all the time. Like 16 opened from 2017-2019.

It was an article I read while visiting a friend over the holidays, so I can't reference it. I tried looking up online what the distinction could be, and while I found a number of sites claiming Arran is the newest distillery in Scotland, they do seem to be from 2015 or prior, so maybe the article I read is just old? Or maybe Arran's marketing is very pervasive?


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It might be that there wasn't any opened for a while, and they were the first of a new wave.

I had a lot of fun going on distillery tours in Kentucky. One, the tours are just fun, and I highly recommend it for a short vacation (cheaper than flying to Scotland). Two, I enjoyed trying to spot the marketing b+%&$#~$ on their tours. I wasn't mad that they were obviously lying about certain things, I just found it entertaining. We went to one distillery and they claimed to be 1 of 4 distilleries open during prohibition. Went to another the next day, and they claimed to have been 1 of 6 open during prohibition. Obviously, someone was fibbing about something.


In December, I hosted a blind tasting for Buffalo Trace's mash bill #2 collection: Blanton's (of John Wick fame), Elmer T. Lee, Rock Hill Farms, and the little-known Hancock's President's Reserve. Most of the tasters arrived with strong opinions as to what their preferences would be. None of those opinions were supported by the blind tasting results. I suspect that, diluted to the same proof, the four of these would be more or less indistinguishable from one another.

I also find it absurd that Blanton's -- which a few years ago I used to pass up on the shelf a at $40 as "absurdly overpriced" -- now sells for closer to $60 or $80. Whatever else may be said, Buffalo Trace Distillery certainly understands the supply-demand curve.


Just had some Old Forester "Small batch" I found it quite good and plan to have another very soon.


Belle Meade Sherry cask finish:

This stuff is phenomenal. Belle Meade straight bourbon has a wonderful cinnamon flavor. Not an artificial one, but a natural bourbon cinnamon. It's very good stuff. The sherry cask finish brings a strong dried fruit taste that compliments that cinnamon. I have a hard time identifying the exact fruit, but a generic fig/date combination to my palate. Not a lot of barrel spice IMO.

It has a very pleasant burn. It doesn't start immediately, but comes in after a moment and builds nicely. It is definitely a firm Kentucky hug.

The fruit and cinnamon linger nicely. I really want to try pairing this with a pecan pie.

Non-whiskey related, a month ago I was having a drink at a bar and the bartender gave me a small taste of some madiera. He didn't pour from the one that cost $100 a pour, but it was my first time with the stuff. I had had port before, but never tried madiera, and I have to say I fell in love with the stuff. A lot of similarities with tawny port, but less intense.


Whiskey Webs!


Hopefully one of our local restaurants can open back up. They had Belle Meade flights available.


Went to the liquor store for beer before my state's "shelter in place" order. Mostly went to buy beer from my friend's brewery (they had to close their taproom and are struggling for money), ended up also getting a bottle of Belle Meade straight bourbon, even though I had told myself "I have enough whiskey to last 2 weeks."

Sovereign Court

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Irontruth wrote:

Belle Meade Sherry cask finish:

This stuff is phenomenal. Belle Meade straight bourbon has a wonderful cinnamon flavor. Not an artificial one, but a natural bourbon cinnamon. It's very good stuff. The sherry cask finish brings a strong dried fruit taste that compliments that cinnamon. I have a hard time identifying the exact fruit, but a generic fig/date combination to my palate. Not a lot of barrel spice IMO.

It has a very pleasant burn. It doesn't start immediately, but comes in after a moment and builds nicely. It is definitely a firm Kentucky hug.

The fruit and cinnamon linger nicely. I really want to try pairing this with a pecan pie.

Non-whiskey related, a month ago I was having a drink at a bar and the bartender gave me a small taste of some madiera. He didn't pour from the one that cost $100 a pour, but it was my first time with the stuff. I had had port before, but never tried madiera, and I have to say I fell in love with the stuff. A lot of similarities with tawny port, but less intense.

If you get a chance (once the pandemic is over of course) visit Northern Portugal. In my opinion, its the best kept secret of Europe. People are incredibly friendly and everything is quite affordable. A bottle of Port that will run you $100+ can be had for like 10 euro. Thats just the beginning of great things to experience there.


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Pan wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

Belle Meade Sherry cask finish:

This stuff is phenomenal. Belle Meade straight bourbon has a wonderful cinnamon flavor. Not an artificial one, but a natural bourbon cinnamon. It's very good stuff. The sherry cask finish brings a strong dried fruit taste that compliments that cinnamon. I have a hard time identifying the exact fruit, but a generic fig/date combination to my palate. Not a lot of barrel spice IMO.

It has a very pleasant burn. It doesn't start immediately, but comes in after a moment and builds nicely. It is definitely a firm Kentucky hug.

The fruit and cinnamon linger nicely. I really want to try pairing this with a pecan pie.

Non-whiskey related, a month ago I was having a drink at a bar and the bartender gave me a small taste of some madiera. He didn't pour from the one that cost $100 a pour, but it was my first time with the stuff. I had had port before, but never tried madiera, and I have to say I fell in love with the stuff. A lot of similarities with tawny port, but less intense.

If you get a chance (once the pandemic is over of course) visit Northern Portugal. In my opinion, its the best kept secret of Europe. People are incredibly friendly and everything is quite affordable. A bottle of Port that will run you $100+ can be had for like 10 euro. Thats just the beginning of great things to experience there.

My wife's uncle was stationed in Portugal for a while. He's retired and if it wasn't for his recent grandkids he'd have moved back there instead of moving to Alabama.


Irontruth wrote:
Went to the liquor store for beer before my state's "shelter in place" order. Mostly went to buy beer from my friend's brewery (they had to close their taproom and are struggling for money), ended up also getting a bottle of Belle Meade straight bourbon, even though I had told myself "I have enough whiskey to last 2 weeks."

Also, if you dont mind, which brewery is your friends? I'd love to support them if I can.


Stacked Deck

They have two really good "basic" beers. The Snake Pilssen is a pilsner. Nothing fancy, but a solid beer if you aren't a hop-head. MacManus is a dry Irish stout, and if you like Guinness, it's basically the same thing. Even before things started closing, I hadn't been to the tap room in a while, so I haven't tried the Weekend At Larry's or Nihilist, both hazy IPAs.

Two years ago, when they first opened, their head brewer was still getting his feet under him, and about half their beers were good. Even just last summer though, you could tell they had ironed out a lot of kinks and I think they're as competitive as any other twin cities brewery.

List of stores that carry their beers.


I said goodbye to the last of my Laphgroaig 18 a couple months ago. I held onto the last few pours for a couple years, but it was getting low enough that the next time I opened the bottle had to be the last (a mostly empty bottle opened too many times oxidizes and ruins the whiskey). It was my personal favorite whiskey, but they no longer make it.

I've replaced it now with some Lagavulin 16, which is roughly comparable in some features and definitely in quality.


Irontruth wrote:
(a mostly empty bottle opened too many times oxidizes and ruins the whiskey)

I didn't know this. How "mostly empty" are we talking about? Since I received a plethora of whiskies this last holiday season, I've been spreading the tastes around. At what point do I need to bite the bullet and just finish up a bottle?


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I'd say approximately 20% remaining is when you should start to be conservative in how many times you open a bottle. There are some options.

1a. Seal it with plastic wrap and tape for long term storage. If you do this, you'll want to tip it to wet the cork a couple (literally 1-2) of times a year, or the cork can go bad. Don't rest it on it's side like a wine bottle, don't shake it, and really just a quick tip and return to standing is fine every now and then. If it's sealed from oxygen, whiskey will stay good for at least a century.

1b. Buy smaller bottles and transfer the whiskey. The smaller bottle has less room for oxygen, and so will oxidize less when opened and close. (Do not use flasks for this, they are not long term storage solutions)

2. Share with friends. Easiest and most obvious solution. If you don't open it, it can sit for a while and you can save it for a special occasion.

3. Infinity bottle. Take an empty (or near empty) bottle and pour the whiskey in. When another bottle is almost done, pour yourself a glass, and pour the rest into your infinity bottle. Some people keep multiples (they prefer each type of whiskey separate, bourbons in one bottle, scotches in another), others just put everything in and see what happens. If the bottle starts to get full, pull it out to share with friends. As it starts to empty, that means you're sharing too much, or not buying enough whiskey, but you also have room for more.

I will say that an all-bourbon infinity bottle is really, really tasty. It can be a funky adventure when you add Irish and Scottish whiskey, and results will vary much more dramatically. It is also a low-stress way to try your hand at blending (which is super fun IMO, I started this year by blending my own concoction for eggnog).

Sovereign Court

Didnt know that bout sitting on a bottle, but makes sense. Nothing lasts long enough in my house except Vodka.


And I'd really only be concerned if you're going to pour slowly over a very long period of time, like a 6 months or longer (ie, pouring a small amount every week or two during that time). If the last 20% of a bottle gets finished in 1-2 months, you don't have to do anything special.

Also, it can happen subtly and you don't notice. For example, my Laphroaig 18 probably changed some over the 3-4 years that I babied it (I didn't know about this stuff during that time either). It was still very tasty at the end, but it probably tasted different than it did when I first opened it. There were also very long periods where I didn't open it. Like I brought it to a Dec 31, 2018 New Year's party for a tasting, and then didn't open it until Dec 2019 when I finished it with some friends.

Sovereign Court

Do you know if the same effect impacts port? The only bottle i'm savoring is Port from Portugal (you cant get in the U.S.)


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Andostre wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
(a mostly empty bottle opened too many times oxidizes and ruins the whiskey)
I didn't know this. How "mostly empty" are we talking about? Since I received a plethora of whiskies this last holiday season, I've been spreading the tastes around. At what point do I need to bite the bullet and just finish up a bottle?

I have a friend who is a serious whiskey geek who tested this subject. He opened a bottle, sent a sample to the lab for mass spectrometer testing, drank half the bottle and waited a year, then collected another sample for analysis. The two were, within instrument sensitivity limits, identical.


Was he opening the bottle regularly? Or was it closed during the year? When he opened the bottle, was he pouring from it (ie, causing movement within the bottle to help cycle the air)? There's a lot of variables that are possible in a test like this.


Description here.


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Okay, but his test doesn't address the hypothesis.

1) Loss of alcohol does affect taste. I've done a blind of Evan Williams bourbon and Evan Williams bourbon BiB (80 versus 100 proof) and could tell the difference. (I've also sampled whiskey left out over night which had no discernible alcohol in it... I imagine that bird bath water with leaves in it would have a similar taste)

2) Alcohol evaporates faster than than water.

3) As the amount of liquid decreases in a bottle, the available space for gas increases.

For the moment, let us assume that some amount of gas inside the bottle escapes every time the bottle is opened. That means that some of the alcohol that evaporated and saturated the bottle also left the bottle. When it is resealed, more alcohol will evaporate to saturate the interior gas again (assuming the gas present does not prevent alcohol evaporation). After an unknown number of opening/closing of the bottle, the alcohol content of the liquid inside will decrease enough to be detectable to human taste buds.

Nothing above is scientifically unsound (other than the taste test of the Evan Williams, but you're free to conduct that test yourself. You can also substitute Wild Turkey 81 and 101 if you prefer, or conduct as well).

There are two questions:
1) In a 750ml bottle, what is the loss of alcohol when opening that bottle for a given volume of liquid?
2) For a specific whiskey, what is the change in proof that can be detected by human taste?

Example: Lets assume that I can tolerate a 6 proof loss from Wild Turkey 101 without noticing. The last 1/4 of the bottle will get finished after 6 times of opening the bottle. Then as long as the proof loss/opening is less than 1, no difference will be detected.

Example 2: Lets say that in Longmorn 16 I can detect a 4 proof change. I will nurse the last 200 ml with very small pours of 15 ml. If the proof change is more than 0.4, than the last 3 pours will be of lower quality with a change in flavor.

(side note, I routinely pour myself less than an ounce at a time)

I do think the concept of neck pours, or unsealing and resealing a new bottle to drink a few days later is psychological in origin. Myths from faulty human perception that have been perpetuated.

After some additional research, I'm also less worried about corks during long storage (obviously not in direct contact with the whiskey, the high alcohol content does start to dissolve the cork). Also, I will be more careful about using "oxidation" as a chemistry blog set me straight on that term.


Splurged on a bottle of Catskills Distilling Most Righteous Straight Bourbon today. Grain-to-glass from NY state, with locally-grown grains. Tastes of tobacco and alfalfa, and you can tell it's young, but it's not bad -- and to get a bottle of local craft bourbon for under $50 is often a challenge.


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The alfalfa/hay taste can be off-putting, especially in a young whiskey (for me). I haven't had a Minnesota whiskey that I'm willing to even tolerate yet.

I bought myself a bottle of Ardbeg Uigeadail. Actually my first Ardbeg that I've had. I like it. It's very much a single malt. Some bright sweetness, and a really deep smoke flavor, but the middle is kinda missing. I do really like it, but it reminds me of how much I miss Laphroaig 18.

On a lark, I decided to blend a glass. About 60% Ardbeg, 30% Lagavulin 16, and 10% Laphroaig 10. The smoke flavor became really muted, though it kind of filled my mouth as an aftertaste that lingered forever. The sweetness of all three became very dominant, with a combination of floral and honey tastes. I really liked it, but am going to play with the ratios.


Glenfiddich 14 Bourbon Barrel

A lot of scotch is aged in "first fill" bourbon barrels. First fill means "the first time that distillery has used them". This scotch spent time in virgin barrels, just like the new barrels used for bourbon.

It still tastes like Glenfiddich. If you've had the 12 year, you will find this extremely familiar. It is still a very "scotch"-tasting scotch. The major difference is that it has more of a burnt sugar taste, with some woody tannin flavors added. It is deeper and richer tasting than Glenfiddich 12, and focuses on those honey and mild vanilla flavors.

It sits at 43% ABV, but is fairly mild. I haven't tested with water, but it feels like an oily whiskey and so I suspect that a couple drops will punch it up.

I picked mine up for $44, and I think that is a pretty good price for it. It doesn't have the actual depth and richness of a scotch twice the price, but it pretends like it does, and for that I feel like it's a good value. I'm probably giving a bottle as a gift this year.


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One of my gaming groups managed to track down a bottle of Old Rip Van Winkle 10 year. We paid retail price luckily.

I'll say, I understand where the hype comes from now. It's a very good bourbon. It's the best straight bourbon I've ever had, but.... it's not that much better IMO. It was definitely worth the price, and I would even say it was probably worth $100 to $120. If I were comparing it to a scotch, that's the price range for quality that I would use. I think a good scotch at around $150-180 though is higher quality (after adjusting for preferences).

The prices on the secondary market are way too high and not worth the cost IMO.

Silver Crusade

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On a whim, I got a bottle of Ohishi Whisky aged in a single brandy cask. I've tried some Japanese whiskys at tastings, but have never gone out and acquired a bottle. This whisky is distilled from rice, and has a delicate flavor, with a light fruit finish from the brandy cask. Retails for $75, but I got it on sale for $55. I'm glad I picked this up. It's a nice change from my usuals.

Sovereign Court

Had some Oban recently, still my favorite scotch.

The Nicollet Island Inn has Blanton's, lots of it, and at reasonable prices for those in the TC.


Dickel's new 8-year-old bourbon turned out to be pretty decent, but is still nowhere near the league of their incredible value bottled-in-bond offering.


I have recently become of fan of the Uncle Nearest brand, good taste, reasonable price, and once HECK of a story behind who he was, and how this brand came to be.


I got covid about a month ago. I'm vaccinated, so it wasn't too bad. I did entirely lose my sense of smell for about 2 weeks, and my sense of taste was severely off for a couple weeks as well. It's all returning, but I'm having to retrain my nose and palette some.

And when I say "entirely lose my sense of smell", I mean I could jam my nose in a bottle of whiskey, breathe deeply, and I didn't even get a burning sensation.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Having visitors for Thanksgiving. I hear they are bringing scotch. Will update on results when I can.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Having visitors for Thanksgiving. I hear they are bringing scotch. Will update on results when I can.

Speaking of the upcoming holidays, folks got any good recommendations?

Acquisitives

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Ive always enjoyed what Ardbeg puts out. Their $10 year old is a terrific house scotch for the price esp for a single malt.

Noticed some comments above about Blanton's and I am with you on the overpricing of bourbon in the last few years. I adored Whistlepig though a rye and end back in the day it was I thought a bit high at $70/bottle now $100.

Pappy/justified I think is a lot to blame. I remember trying Pappy a decade ago when you could get it at retail (round $150) now that bottle sits there with a $2000 price tag. Silliness.

Willett Pot Still Reserve has always been a fave of mine and though of course it's gone up, can still be had for under a hundred.

Reckon the good part is I deliberately pace myself on whiskies as I tend to like it a little much, so I can make a bottle last easy six months or more when I do buy something.


I've got a bottle of Weller 12 year purchased at grocery retail price.

Debating the amount of effort to sell it or if that's not cost-effective, drink.


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Received a bottle of Lagavulin 8 as a 'divorce gift' a little while back. Cracked it to share with some new friends and found it very enjoyable, might join the rotation alongside my favorite Laphroaigs.


Vil-hatarn wrote:
Received a bottle of Lagavulin 8 as a 'divorce gift' a little while back. Cracked it to share with some new friends and found it very enjoyable, might join the rotation alongside my favorite Laphroaigs.

Sorry to hear about your divorce. I recently divorced myself and was sure to swipe a bottle of Eagle Rare 12yr on my way out the door.


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Vil-hatarn wrote:
Received a bottle of Lagavulin 8 as a 'divorce gift' a little while back. Cracked it to share with some new friends and found it very enjoyable, might join the rotation alongside my favorite Laphroaigs.

I also recently acquired a bottle as a gift, and am in agreement: Very enjoyable!

As for bourbons... I just opened a bottle of Hudson NY Whiskey's small-batch "Bright Lights Big Bourbon." Loved it.


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Paulyhedron wrote:
Ive always enjoyed what Ardbeg puts out. Their $10 year old is a terrific house scotch for the price esp for a single malt.

I tried this over the summer, and it was very good! I had received a recommendation to try it, and then my father-in-law had a bottle when we went to visit, so we opened the bottle.

My mainstay is still Oban 14, but I also rotate in Laphroaig Quarter Cask. I have enjoyed Laphroaig 10yo many times, but I'm also not always in the mood for the heavy peaty sensation it has. Quarter Cask is still an excellent, similar scotch, but with out the powerful peat. It's pricier, though.


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At one point I had 4 different bottles of Laphroaig in my cabinet (10, quarter, lore, 18). Now I just have the 10 and 10 cask strength. The 18 is my all-time favorite scotch, but they don't bottle that any more.

My friend's brewery just closed. Their landlord screwed them over. Last winter, I was really enjoying their imperial/pastry stouts. Some of them were a bit on the sweet side, so I started making them into boiler makers with scotch. Glenfiddich 14 (bourbon barrel) paired really well with a sweet stout, giving just enough bite again for my taste. I've also found that it's a decent scotch to introduce bourbon drinkers to.

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:

At one point I had 4 different bottles of Laphroaig in my cabinet (10, quarter, lore, 18). Now I just have the 10 and 10 cask strength. The 18 is my all-time favorite scotch, but they don't bottle that any more.

My friend's brewery just closed. Their landlord screwed them over. Last winter, I was really enjoying their imperial/pastry stouts. Some of them were a bit on the sweet side, so I started making them into boiler makers with scotch. Glenfiddich 14 (bourbon barrel) paired really well with a sweet stout, giving just enough bite again for my taste. I've also found that it's a decent scotch to introduce bourbon drinkers to.

Damn, thats too bad. Im guessing they cant find another site?


Irontruth wrote:
My friend's brewery just closed. Their landlord screwed them over. Last winter, I was really enjoying their imperial/pastry stouts. Some of them were a bit on the sweet side, so I started making them into boiler makers with scotch. Glenfiddich 14 (bourbon barrel) paired really well with a sweet stout, giving just enough bite again for my taste.

So, I just looked up what a boiler maker is. Do you chase the scotch with the beer, or do you mix them when you have this drink?


Andostre wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
My friend's brewery just closed. Their landlord screwed them over. Last winter, I was really enjoying their imperial/pastry stouts. Some of them were a bit on the sweet side, so I started making them into boiler makers with scotch. Glenfiddich 14 (bourbon barrel) paired really well with a sweet stout, giving just enough bite again for my taste.
So, I just looked up what a boiler maker is. Do you chase the scotch with the beer, or do you mix them when you have this drink?

Mix.

The classic is a cheap beer and bourbon. It's definitely one to drink carefully, as you're essentially doubling your alcohol intake. It can be side-by-side, or it can be served as a shot you drop in the beer glass and chug. I prefer combos that pair well mixed and compliment each other.

Pan wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

At one point I had 4 different bottles of Laphroaig in my cabinet (10, quarter, lore, 18). Now I just have the 10 and 10 cask strength. The 18 is my all-time favorite scotch, but they don't bottle that any more.

My friend's brewery just closed. Their landlord screwed them over. Last winter, I was really enjoying their imperial/pastry stouts. Some of them were a bit on the sweet side, so I started making them into boiler makers with scotch. Glenfiddich 14 (bourbon barrel) paired really well with a sweet stout, giving just enough bite again for my taste. I've also found that it's a decent scotch to introduce bourbon drinkers to.

Damn, thats too bad. Im guessing they cant find another site?

My friend is getting out of the business. It was a fun ride for him while it lasted (2-3 years?), but he's going back to his day job.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Planpanther wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Having visitors for Thanksgiving. I hear they are bringing scotch. Will update on results when I can.
Speaking of the upcoming holidays, folks got any good recommendations?

Can't say I do, but I'm looking forward to what comes, given the visitor is from Scotland.


Planpanther wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Having visitors for Thanksgiving. I hear they are bringing scotch. Will update on results when I can.
Speaking of the upcoming holidays, folks got any good recommendations?

What do you like, and what is your budget?

Sovereign Court

Irontruth wrote:
Planpanther wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Having visitors for Thanksgiving. I hear they are bringing scotch. Will update on results when I can.
Speaking of the upcoming holidays, folks got any good recommendations?
What do you like, and what is your budget?

Bourbon is my jam, but I do like Oban. I'll try anything in 30-50 dollar range but I might need some convincing to go above 80.


Michter's American Whiskey is one of all-time recommendations. It's good straight, but I've used it for blending and cocktails as well. Unlike a bourbon, it's aged in used barrels. I find it has softer and deeper notes than bourbons, but still retains that familiarity.

Highland Park 12 should be pretty accessible. Definitely still scotch, but not nearly as aggressive many of them. It routinely ranks really high among tasters, bartenders, experts, etc. Despite the name, it's not a highland.

Lesser known, I like Ancnoc 12. It is a highland. I don't think it's peated (not smokey). It's not sherried (no big fruit notes). It's a nice, light scotch. It still has that distinctive "scotch" flavor, but not excessively. When I've shared it with people, it wasn't uncommon for people to find the sweetness in it much easier than other scotches.


Going to crack open a bottle of Iron Smoke bourbon (a local WNY distiller) tonight and sit back with a good book. Tasty stuff, under 50 bucks (here anyway).


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Speaking of scotches that you drink straight vs. mixing, I was given a bottle of Cutty Sark by a family member. They gave me a bottle because Cutty Sark was my grandfather's scotch of choice. It is... not my favorite. But I had a big bottle of it, and I don't like to waste things, so I started using it in mixed scotch drinks.

Rusty nails are my favorite scotch cocktail (for those taking notes). I got so used to rusty nails made with Cutty Sark, that any time I make one with a "better" scotch, it tastes off. Now, whenever I make a drink that calls for mixing in scotch, Cutty Sark is what I try first.

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