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Can someone tell me how exactly (example would be nice) a Hide in Plain Sight works in actual combat?
I meant based on what someone could do in a single round of combat, assuming the shadowdancer is attacking and in melee range with his opponenent and what an opponent can do to defend himself from being attack every round with Sneak Attack when the shadow dancer steps outside of his opponent shadow and step in again before the round ends to prevent from being attack.
The shadowdancer can disappear as long as they are within 10' of dim light. Since its supernatural and allows the user to hide without concealment, I think of it as a pseudo-invisibility power that is dependent on the user's stealth check. The major rule of thumb is that stealth is part of movement. Thus you should be making stealth checks only when the shadow dancer moves.
In combat it works a little like spring attack in that if you constantly shift in an out of visibility, opponents can usually only deal with you when you reappear. Combined with spring attack and can kill an unperceptive opponent with a death of many cuts. However it takes longer than facing off with full attacks, and that opponent can also delay their attacks occur when you attack them. This allows you to reduce them to standard attacks only, though with vital strikes they can overtake you on the damage race.
Edit - James is dirty dual -wielding hasted ninja who spends ki :D
Can someone tell me how exactly (example would be nice) a Hide in Plain Sight works in actual combat?
Okay Sam the Shadowdancer is fighting Fred the Fighter.
Sam is currently hidden in regards to Fred's sight, and it is Sam's turn in the initiative.
1. Sam was adjacent to Fred. Sam attacks Fred with his short sword. Now Fred can see Sam. Sam wants to not be seen by Fred, so in order to hide Sam needs the following:
A. To be within 10feet of dim light (aka shadows).
B. To move.
(normally there are other requirements in cover/concealment & unobserved for stealth, but Sam gets to replace those with A above due to his HiPS ability)Sam has two options now that he's simply made an attack action on Fred. Sam can:
A. 5' step which will move Sam and let him hide.
B. Take a move action which will let him hide from Fred. Sadly though that provokes an AOO from Fred.
(Sam could have been using Spring Attack to alter this, likewise if Sam is sneak attacking Fred there is a rogue talent that would prevent those hit by the sneak attack from taking AOOs for a round)Sam elects to take the 5' step. Sam's player rolls his stealth check and Fred rolls a perception check (presumably failed.. though Sam won't know).
On Fred's turn he can do a few things:
A. He can move away or otherwise provoke an AOO. If he does so it will provoke, but if Sam takes the AOO then Sam will be seen by Fred. Unlike the other times Sam won't be able to also move.
B. He can take a move action to roll another Perception Check.
C. He can try to guess which 5' square Sam moved to and full attack it. Assuming that Sam wishes to be adjacent to Fred this is a limited number. After doing so Fred can 5' step away from where he can figure Sam is hiding.
D. Fred can delay and wait for a fellow party member to faerie fire or glitterdust which should let him see Sam.
E. Fred can ready an action to Vital strike Sam when he can see and hit Sam.There are a good number of variables here, but that's the...
Thank you. Those Tips will surely help.
Can you show me where in the Pathfinder rules it says that Concealment makes your target lose his DEX? I see only Invisibility and the foe being blind.
In other words, under RAW, HIPS or concealment does not grant Sneak Attack, as the target does not lose his DEX bonus.
Also, you cannot use Stealth when attacking.
Concealment doesn't, but attacking when you are unseen most certainly does. And while you can't hide while attacking, Hide in Plain Sight(+Ranger's Camouflage if necessary), by overriding the requirement that you need cover/concealment/not being observed to make a Stealth check, most certainly allows you to make an attack, and then hide again. You'll never get a full attack with this method, but you can do it.
Can you show me where in the Pathfinder rules it says that Concealment makes your target lose his DEX? I see only Invisibility and the foe being blind.
In other words, under RAW, HIPS or concealment does not grant Sneak Attack, as the target does not lose his DEX bonus.
Also, you cannot use Stealth when attacking.
yah Concealment dont negate dex bonus but stealth (hide) does. Assuming your Stealth roll is higher than your opponent's Perception roll.
Where does it say that Stealth makes your foe lose his DEX bonus?
And, it does say that Invisibility does, but no where can I find that simply “attacking while unseen” does.
Wow. you got a point there. I read everywhere and including Stealth, Concealment and Cover and nothing says that negates dex bonus except for Invisibility condition.
Wow. you got a point there. I read everywhere and including Stealth, Concealment and Cover and nothing says that negates dex bonus except for Invisibility condition.
Really? did somone really asked this question. if you are stealth and your oppontent can't see you then you are in effect invisible. kinda like how the blinded conditions causes you to lose your dex.
Wow. you got a point there. I read everywhere and including Stealth, Concealment and Cover and nothing says that negates dex bonus except for Invisibility condition.Really? did somone really asked this question. if you are stealth and your oppontent can't see you then you are in effect invisible. kinda like how the blinded conditions causes you to lose your dex.Totally reasonable extrapolation. But can you in fact prove it in the rules? For Pathfinder I do not know. In 3.5 it is in the combat section under armor class modifiers, concealed or invisible, and then the definition.
But even then it never states it explicitly that I can find, it is still a bit of an inference.
Even in 3.5 it was just a extrapolation until they came out with a FAQ or something in Complete Adventurer or one of those skill based PC books.
The point is in Pathfinder they just list "invisble" which is a special vesion of being unseen. They could have listed Unseen or hidden or fully concealed, but they didn't. They also have not FAQed or Errated this point (about HiPS, etc) despite about a dozen threads, some running hundreds of posts long.