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So, I was wondering if anybody had done any experimenting with creating archetypes. In my upcoming campaign, I have a buddy who wants to play a paladin with a little bit of a Duelist/Swashbuckler feel. I kind of figured that just creating an archetype for him would be the easiest, since the Duelist PrC probably isn't going to be a whole lot of fun for him. If anybody could give some advice to point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. If I can answer any questions in order to make the whole idea a little clearer, let me know. Thanks in advance!
Hmmm.... a Swashbuckling Crusader for justice and good? I like it.
However, what is the dude's ultimate game plan with this character? Do they intend to forgoe heavy armor? Are they wanting to use only a rapier? What exactly do they want to do?
Pathfinder is very much lacking a finesse paladin. Holy Gun and Holy Tactician from ultimate combat might be easily reskinned for his purpose.
Once I have an idea as to what's the endgame here, I'd gladly help out.
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If I were to make a swashbuckling paladin-type, I would actually go with cleric of Cayden Cailean and fighter (or rogue). Travel domains will ensure that I've always got the movement to be swashing, and fighter or rogue for the buckle. Maybe even go with inquisitor instead.
If he's set on paladin tho, it's a bit trickier. Perhaps a few levels of fighter for the armor mastery and feats? I'm not sure if I'd actually go rogue, although I'm told it can be effective for a ranged smiter build.
Inquisitor or Cayden Cailean might also be a good idea.
Yeah, I really like the idea as well. He wants to use a rapier at least and maybe get into TWF. However, the TWF option just kind of depends on how well the archetype flows. The Duelist PrC focused on a one-handed weapon, so I'm inclined to follow the same line of thinking. As far as armor goes, I'm thinking light armor. That, to me, makes the most sense. I believe he will also go for this as long as the abilities he gets are worth it. I'm just not sure what direction to go. I've been looking at some of the Paladin archetypes, and I've noticed that a number of them modify smite evil. I've thought about starting there.
Paladins are feat starved for the purpose of 2WF. So it would be a bad ide a to go that route.
Changing smite evil might nerf the Paladin's damage output considerably.
Granted, if you wanted, you could change it to a constant effect similar to the Duelists. Here are a couple ideas.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: <Swashbuckling Knight> are proficient with all simple and martial one handed weapons, and light armor.
Canny Smite: A <Swashbuckling Knight> adds 1 point of Charisma bonus (if any) per <Swashbuckling Knight> class level to her Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a one handed melee weapon. If a <Swashbuckling Knight> is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus. Furthermore, when attacking any evil creature while wearing light or no armor not using a shield, she gains half her paladin level rounded down (minimum 1) to her damage roll.
A <Swashbuckling Knight> loses these bonuses to damage and AC when wearing medium or heavy armor, and does not have at least one hand free. This ability replaces Smite Evil.
Divine Initiative: A <Swashbuckling Knight> is able to add their Charisma Bonus (If any) to their initiative roll. This ability Replaces Channel Energy.
Those are just some preliminary ideas.
Honestly, there's nothing stopping your player from just strait up playing a Paladin that focuseses down on using a Rapier in one hand, with a high a DEX bonus and light armor.
A number of great ideas guys. I'm going to talk to my player and see if the cleric or inquisitor ideas catch his attention. Along the TWF lines, what would you guys think about maybe giving him the first feat in the series, if I make an archetype for the paladin. Obviously I don't want it to be too powerful, but just an idea to help him out.
If You want a TWF paladin, then giving him the whole series for free @1st, 8tn, and and 15th. And replace w/e you feel appropriate.
You might consider creating a Multiclass Archetype. I and my compatriates have been developing a variety of gestalt-esque Multiclass Archetypes in this thread.
We follow a prescribed format I developed (that has evolved over the last month since we started the development process) and have created a variety of them that include Core/Core, Core/Base, and Base/Base combinations, such as Barbarian/Sorcerer, Wizard/Rogue, Paladin/Summoner, Rogue/Alchemist, Antipaladin/Witch and even Magus/Monk.
If you can find out what combo of classes your player's looking for, I'm sure I or those working in the thread can come up with something balanced and interesting for him. We haven't done a Paladin/Rogue or Rogue/Paladin combo yet.
Sound likes he's looking for something that is a combo of paladin/rogue/duelist/swashbuckler. Let us know if you're interested.
So, I was wondering if anybody had done any experimenting with creating archetypes. In my upcoming campaign, I have a buddy who wants to play a paladin with a little bit of a Duelist/Swashbuckler feel. I kind of figured that just creating an archetype for him would be the easiest, since the Duelist PrC probably isn't going to be a whole lot of fun for him. If anybody could give some advice to point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated. If I can answer any questions in order to make the whole idea a little clearer, let me know. Thanks in advance!
I played a paladin/swashbuckler once. The character was a blast!
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A number of great ideas guys. I'm going to talk to my player and see if the cleric or inquisitor ideas catch his attention. Along the TWF lines, what would you guys think about maybe giving him the first feat in the series, if I make an archetype for the paladin. Obviously I don't want it to be too powerful, but just an idea to help him out.
What do you think of this? I based his abilities mostly on adding effects to his smite evil (similar to how you can use rogue talents to add effects to sneak attack) but only when the enemy loses its Dex bonus. He accomplishes this using feints.
A Divine Duelist has been charged by his church with the task of seeking out evil and defeating it in the noble ways of single combat.
Primary Class: Paladin
Secondary Class: Rogue (Swashbuckler)
Hit Dice: d10
Save Bonus: +2 Ref
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The Divine Duelist may choose three Rogue class skills and add them to her list of class skills, in addition to the normal Paladin class skills. The Divine Duelist gains skill points equal to 4 + her Int modifier per level.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The Divine Duelist is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and light armor. She is not proficient with medium or heavy armor, or shields of any type.
Duelist's Reactions: The Divine Duelist gains the Weapon Finesse feat as a bonus feat at 1st level.
Beguiling Smite: At 2nd level, the Divine Duelist is able to distract an evil target with her flourishing movements. When she is using Smite Evil, when feinting against her Smite Evil target she does not provoke attacks of opportunity, and she may feint as a move action. She also gains a bonus to her bluff check equal to her divine duelist level when using this ability. At 8th level, when feinting against her Smite Evil target that target is denied its dexterity bonus until the end of the divine duelist's turn. At 11th level, she may sacrifice her first attack (at the highest base attack bonus) to make a feint attempt as part of a full attack action. At 16th level, when using an acrobatics check to move at least ten feet without provoking attacks of opportunity, she may attempt to feint her Smite Evil target as part of that move action. This replaces Lay on Hands.
Enhanced Smite Evil: Beginning at 3rd level and every three levels thereafter, the Divine Duelist can choose an additional effect with which to enhance her smite evil attacks. Whenever her target is denied its Dex bonus to AC, she may apply a single additional effect. This ability replaces Mercy. She may choose from the following effects:
Righteous Sneak: The Divine Duelist can strike a vulnerable spot on her target, dealing +1d6 precision damage, and an additional +1d6 damage for every five levels of Divine Duelist she has, to a maximum of +6d6 at 20th level.
Bleeding Attack: The Divine Duelist can cause her target to bleed, dealing a point of bleed damage each round for her Charisma modifier number of rounds. For every five levels of Divine Duelist, the bleed damage increases by 1, to a maximum of 6 points at 20th level.
Slow Reactions: The Divine Duelist slows her opponent with a precise blow. That opponent's speed decreases by 10 feet and they cannot make attacks of opportunity. This effect lasts a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the Divine Duelist's Charisma modifier, rounded down. The Divine Duelist must be at least 10th level to choose this effect.
Weapon Snatch: The Divine Duelist may attempt to disarm her opponent without provoking an attack of opportunity. If she is trained in the Slight of Hand skill, she may use that check in place of her CMB. She gains a +4 bonus on the check when attempting this maneuver.
Pushing Strike: As part of an attack action, if the attack hits, the Divine Duelist may make a CMB roll against her opponent's CMD to push her opponent back 5 feet without provoking an attack of opportunity. She gains a +4 to her CMB when attempting this maneuver. Whether she pushes the opponent back or not, the attack deals damage as normal.
We will need a few more enhancements for the smite evil ability, for sure.
If you are interested, I developed a full 20 level Divine Duelits (Paladin/Rogue) multiclass archetype with some other abilities and incorporated cartmanbeck's suggestions, and he's given it the thumbs up. If you want to see it, let me know on this thread, or the one I posted in my last post above.