Spiked Chain, Kama Double-Chain, Kusarigama


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

So, I remember back in the Beta of Pathfinder, as well as on into Release, and the various discussions about it, that cheers were resounding at the concept of removing Reach from the Spiked chain on the grounds that you could, unlike most reach weapons, hit far and near (Barring feats from other books like Short half as example).

I applauded this, and it seemed as many thought the Spiked Chain was a problem for that reason...

So, I open the Ultimate Combat book... and find they've more or less just put back in the problematic (Depending on point of view) Spiked chain of 3.0/3.5, now named Kama Double-Chain and Kusarigama.

Am I the only one who's confused as to why they did this. Yes, as a GM I just say "Sorry, not allowing those" or whatnot. But I'm curious as to the change in mindset on that subject.

Or am I the only one wondering WTF?

Weave


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

3.5 Spiked Chain: 1d6 (S) or 2d4 (M) x2 Finessable, Trip, Disarm, Reach weapon dealing piercing damage, and capable of attacking adjacent.

PF Kusari-Gama: 1d2/1d4 (S) or 1d3/1d6 (M) x2 Double, Monk, Reach, Trip, Grapple weapon dealing Slashing or Bludgeoning damage depending on which head you use. The text does not indicate that it can be used to attack adjacent.

PF Kama Double Chained 1d4/1d4 (S)or 1d6/1d6 x2 Double, Monk, Reach, Trip weapon dealing slashing damage. Can be wielded as a pair of Kamas.

Of the two, only the Double Chained Kama is explicitly capable of attacking adjacent, though I'd certainly let the Kusari-Gama do so. Neither one is anywhere near as powerful as the Spiked Chain.

Of course, I'm someone who uses the 3.5 Spiked Chain completely unchanged in games I run, because I think it's the power level that most exotic weapons ought to be at, much like the Falcata. So you can take what I say with a grain of salt.

Shadow Lodge

The main reason the spiked chain was stupidity OP was that you only needed the EWP to get it, now the Kusari-Gama and the Double Chained Kama require TWF to use properly, this is a hell a lot more feat intensive and in my books that's going to balance it out

personally i think the spiked chain needed a little bit of a nerf, but now with that nerf it's an exotic heavy flail that you can finesse that does slightly less damage, i would have liked to see something improved on the spiked chain since it is a freaking exotic, maybe higher threat (19-20) or x3 crit

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