Dimensional feat chain from Ultimate Combat

[Seraphimpunk]

Do the various sundry abilities that conjurers or travel domain powers grant, qualify as Dimension Door for this feat chain ?

[j b 200]

The feat description says

UC pg 95 wrote:

Ability to....cast dimension door.

the Conjeror ability states that

Quote:

you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door.

and travel domain

Quote:

you can teleport up to 10 feet per cleric level per day as a move action.

So I would say no to both. Using an ability that is similar to DD is not the same as casting DD. Travel Domain can take the feat but only at level 7 (DD as domain spell).

[Dennis Baker]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

Do the various sundry abilities that conjurers or travel domain powers grant, qualify as Dimension Door for this feat chain ?

As it's written I would have to say no. I think a GM could easily extend it to include the travel domain powers though.

[Bascaria]

Dennis Baker wrote:

Seraphimpunk wrote:

Do the various sundry abilities that conjurers or travel domain powers grant, qualify as Dimension Door for this feat chain ?

As it's written I would have to say no. I think a GM could easily extend it to include the travel domain powers though.

It very clearly does not apply to any domain powers or class abilities that function like DD except for abundant step.

2 pieces of proof. 1st, it says you need "the ability to cast dimension door" which is very specific and an ability which functions as DD does not fulfill.

2nd, it calls out Abundant Step specifically as also being able to fulfill the requirements (but not via the being able to cast DD, just as being a second path to the same end). Since abundant step has language saying that it functions as DD, we can assume that any ability which functions as DD which is NOT called out specifically will not fulfill the requirements for the feat.

[Fozbek]

The Teleportation subschool ability might work. If it was a Spell-Like Ability instead of a Supernatural Ability, I'd say it works 100%, because SLAs function as spells with respect to feats. Supernatural abilities are different, though; they aren't cast. It still says "as dimension door", but the mere fact that it's a Su ability casts doubt.

The Travel domain power doesn't reference dimension door or abundant step at all, so it doesn't work as written.

[Fozbek]

Bascaria wrote:

1st, it says you need "the ability to cast dimension door" which is very specific and an ability which functions as DD does not fulfill.

Actually, spell-like abilities are cast. Or at least, there's nothing that says they aren't and quite a few SLAs do use the "cast" language. Supernatural abilities aren't, though, which is why the Teleportation subschool probably wouldn't work.

Quote:

2nd, it calls out Abundant Step specifically as also being able to fulfill the requirements (but not via the being able to cast DD, just as being a second path to the same end). Since abundant step has language saying that it functions as DD, we can assume that any ability which functions as DD which is NOT called out specifically will not fulfill the requirements for the feat.

Again, no. Abundant step is a Su ability, which means it isn't cast. If it was a Sp ability, it wouldn't need to be specifically allowed.

As an example of a class feature that will work with these feats, Synthesist Summoners get Maker's Jump, which lets them "cast dimension door as a spell-like ability".

[Dennis Baker]

Bascaria wrote:

It very clearly does not apply to any domain powers or class abilities that function like DD except for abundant step.

I'm not sure what prompted the little mini-lecture since I said exactly that.

[Seraphimpunk]

teleport subschool:

Quote:

Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.

anything that acts like dimension door should count as being able to benefit. its restrictive like dimension door, and this dimensional agility lets you act after you step with dimension door.

using an ability that is similar to dimension door, acts as dimension door and references the spell is pretty close. the only things are that its worse than dimension door in distance traveled.

[Seraphimpunk]

i'm just mainly trying to figure out where this feat tree can fit in with character progression.

a monk doesn't get abundant step until 12th level
wouldn't be able to take dimensional agility until 13th,
15th . d. assault
17th. d. dervish
19th. d. maneuvers

could never take d. savant.

a wizard could at 7th qualify, and take dimensional agility.
9th. dimensional assault
13th. dimensional dervish
19th. dimensional maneuvers.

again , could never qualify for dimensional savant.

a cleric w/ travel could do it
7th. dimensional agility
9th. dimensional assault
11th. dimensional dervish
13th. dimensional maneuvers
15th. dimensional savant

a dervish bard or magus could, starting at 11th level - 19th level.
an eldritch knight from 9th - 17th.

its very much a feat tree that a. will never get use in society play b/c of all the levels needed, b. won't get much use in the modules they publish, because most of those only go up to around 15th/16th level.

its a fun feat tree, if it were a little more accessible it'd be a nice build. a dervish cleric seems the simplest way to access it, but they would be able to execute it once per day since their domain spell slot can only be used for the spell, they can't prepare additional castings of their domain spell.

it fits the dervish bard perfectly, but again, such a high level.

i was just hoping to find a way to bring it down more into the sweet spot between 7th and 15th. but i'm not seeing how. is there a monk archtype that allows abundant step at a lower level? a more martial class that allows multiple castings of dimension door and access to the feat? hell, even if a regular fighter could do it with a cloak of the montebank that'd be a great option.

why even bother to include abundant step? it can barely get 4 out of the 5 feats before end game?

the only class i can find that can do it all in one is the summoner because they get 3/4 bab, and dimension door as a 3rd level spell instead of fourth. =/

[Fozbek]

You don't need Dimensional Maneuvers for Dimensional Savant.

[Seraphimpunk]

k, so you could take either or, depending on what else you were trying to do. flank or do a maneuver i guess. so you'd only usually want 4 of the feats.

still doesn't bring them down to a more playable area of the game =(

[TLO3]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

k, so you could take either or, depending on what else you were trying to do. flank or do a maneuver i guess. so you'd only usually want 4 of the feats.

still doesn't bring them down to a more playable area of the game =(

Three levels of Horizon Walker choosing astral plane terrain dominance, and you're Dimension Door-ing at 9 with any class.

9: Dim. Agility
11: Dim. Assault
14: Dim. Dervish
15: Dim. Savant or Maneuvers.

Personally, I think all the Dimension chain feats with the exception of Agility should be Combat feats. If you can convince your GM of that then you can take two levels of fighter after 3 levels of walker and get:
9: Dim. Agility
10: Dim. Assault(Fighter 1 bonus)
11: Dim. Dervish, Dim. Savant(Fighter 2 bonus)
13: Dim. Maneuvers

For a 15 level build I'd probably do something like Rogue 6/Horizon 3/Fighter 2/Rogue 10 for an advance rogue talent and 5d6 sneak attack on your dimensional flanking, or Rogue 6/Horizon Walker 3/Fighter 5/Rogue 7 for 4d6 sneak attack, Weapon Specialization, and Weapon training 1.

[Seraphimpunk]

Oooh. Better question: Could a Shadowdancer take the feats, once they have their shadow jaunt ability? that seems to fit the class and ability quite well.

[Benjamin Robson]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

Oooh. Better question: Could a Shadowdancer take the feats, once they have their shadow jaunt ability? that seems to fit the class and ability quite well.

No, Shadow Jump states that the Shadowdancer moves "as if" by means of a dimension door spell. Unfortunately the feat chain requires either Dimension Door as the spell (spell-like abilities count), or Abundant Step, of which Shadow Jump is neither.

However I'm sure you can work something out with a DM.

[Seraphimpunk]

exploring a build path for Pathfinder Society.
so unfortunately it would need to be ruled official for the society, and be attainable under 12th level so that it's fun to play.

All the rule instances that say "as Dimension Door" would seem to qualify as casting dimension door to me, but others seem to disagree.

[Ravingdork]

Synthesist summoners can use these feats in conjunction with their MAKER'S JUMP class ability since it clearly says "...the synthesist can cast dimension door..."

That's a far cry from working with everything else though.

[Bobson]

Seraphimpunk wrote:

All the rule instances that say "as Dimension Door" would seem to qualify as casting dimension door to me, but others seem to disagree.

The problem is that "as dimension door" by itself is unclear, but it isn't by itself. It specifically calls out abundant step as another way to qualify that isn't because it's "as dimension door." This, RAW is that anything that is "as dimension door" doesn't qualify, which is why Abundant step needed to be mentioned. RAI is, in my opinion, anything that acts like dimension door, but that's just my interpretation.