Pretend that I am totally insane and actually want to replace all d20 rolls with 2d10. This would create a bell curve of probability that makes really high rolls and really low rolls more rare mitigating some of the swinginess of the d20 system. My question is, could this work and what aspects of the game would you need to change to accommodate?
The obvious one that pops in my mind is critical hits and automatic misses. You'd probably have to make 19-20 the default and reduce by one as normal for each step. My other worry is that heavily armored fighters would be untouchable at high levels.
Nothing else really springs to mind though. Wonder if anyone has ever tried this.
Yeah, it's been thought of (Google D&D 2d10 for about a zillion forum musings). Semi related is a good RPG stack exchange question on replacing d20 with 3d6.
I like the idea in general, because it makes things more normalized. Like in GURPS, or on the higher power end in Feng Shui.
The main problem with this is that a given bonus means a lot more in a more normalized system. Someone with a +2 vs a +4 is a narrow margin in d20 D&D but it's a lot more in 2d10 D&D. I think moving to 2d10 would have worked better in e.g. 1e D&D where the bonuses were of more manageable scope and more tied to level, but now in the uber powered "I have +25" world it becomes less feasible. It's so easy to get a wide bonus variance among characters of the same level even, that you can have "hopeless contests" a lot.
Of course you'd need to mess with crits and all, but that's the least of it really.
I was thinking about this idea recently. There are certain advantages.
For example, imagine you have to bend an iron bar to impress some barbarians. The GM rules it is a DC 15 strength check. The Fighter, strength 24, tries it. He has a 65% chance, but rolls a 7, and fails. Then the Wizard tries. He's a puny fellow with a strength of 8, but he rolls a 16, and succeeds. Not something that I can imagine happening in real life.
One option is to use 2d10 for skill checks, attribute checks and saving throws, but not for attack rolls.
Target score__ __Chance in d20 system__ __Chance in 2d10 system
20_________ ________5%_________ _________1%
19-20______ ________10%________ _________3%
18-20______ ________15%________ _________6%
17-20______ ________20%________ _________10%
16-20______ ________25%________ _________15%
15-20______ ________30%________ _________21%
14-20______ ________35%________ _________28%
13-20______ ________40%________ _________36%
12-20______ ________45%________ _________45%
11-20______ ________50%________ _________55%
10-20______ ________55%________ _________64%
_9-20______ ________60%________ _________72%
_8-20______ ________65%________ _________79%
_7-20______ ________70%________ _________85%
_6-20______ ________75%________ _________90%
_5-20______ ________80%________ _________94%
_4-20______ ________85%________ _________97%
_3-20______ ________90%________ _________99%
_2-20______ ________95%________ _________100%
If you want to get as close as possible to regular critical chances:
20 critical becomes 18+ critical.
19+ critical becomes 17+ critical.
18+ critical becomes 16+ critical.
17+ critical becomes 15+ critical.
15+ critical (eg Keen scimitar) becomes 14+ critical.
Pretend that I am totally insane and actually want to replace all d20 rolls with 2d10. This would create a bell curve of probability that makes really high rolls and really low rolls more rare mitigating some of the swinginess of the d20 system. My question is, could this work and what aspects of the game would you need to change to accommodate?
The obvious one that pops in my mind is critical hits and automatic misses. You'd probably have to make 19-20 the default and reduce by one as normal for each step. My other worry is that heavily armored fighters would be untouchable at high levels.
Nothing else really springs to mind though. Wonder if anyone has ever tried this.
We run our game* with 2d10, and yes, you have to mess with criticals. Keep in mind that each extra point of critical potential (going from 19-20 to 18-20) is basically a doubling of threat range - for the more common critical threats, anyways.
Skills are more reliable in a crisis (less likely to roll low and screw up and die), but the "Hail Mary and hope for 20" is a much less viable plan. This is NOT a bad thing. If you know you need to roll a 19-20 to succeed at something, you are wasting your action trying, even in D20 (10% is still very low odds).
Players have to act smarter and use more tactics against tough foes. They also have to optimize a bit better than the standard campaign. Spellcasters will have some issues with DC and saving throws, as these too are more predictable - spells with saves should be a less popular option.
*We also use armor as DR, Wound Points (critical hits go to wounds) and are in a war where most of our fighting is vs masses of goblinoids and/or ogres. So our anecdotal evidence is skewed vs the 'standard' Pathfinder game.
The same two d10s if used as a percentile role would get you 100 possible outcomes instead of just 19 if you add the two dice together. I think it would be very easy to convert d20s to percentile rolls, multiply everything by 5 and you got the d100 system.
Yes, it would be quite simple. And it would neatly defeat the entire purpose of the OP's rule change.
The odds would be exactly the same as d20.
Pretend that I am totally insane and actually want to replace all d20 rolls with 2d10. This would create a bell curve of probability that makes really high rolls and really low rolls more rare mitigating some of the swinginess of the d20 system. My question is, could this work and what aspects of the game would you need to change to accommodate?
The obvious one that pops in my mind is critical hits and automatic misses. You'd probably have to make 19-20 the default and reduce by one as normal for each step. My other worry is that heavily armored fighters would be untouchable at high levels.
Nothing else really springs to mind though. Wonder if anyone has ever tried this.
We run our game* with 2d10, and yes, you have to mess with criticals. Keep in mind that each extra point of critical potential (going from 19-20 to 18-20) is basically a doubling of threat range - for the more common critical threats, anyways.
Skills are more reliable in a crisis (less likely to roll low and screw up and die), but the "Hail Mary and hope for 20" is a much less viable plan. This is NOT a bad thing. If you know you need to roll a 19-20 to succeed at something, you are wasting your action trying, even in D20 (10% is still very low odds).
Players have to act smarter and use more tactics against tough foes. They also have to optimize a bit better than the standard campaign. Spellcasters will have some issues with DC and saving throws, as these too are more predictable - spells with saves should be a less popular option.
*We also use armor as DR, Wound Points (critical hits go to wounds) and are in a war where most of our fighting is vs masses of goblinoids and/or ogres. So our anecdotal evidence is skewed vs the 'standard' Pathfinder game.
Sry, [thread jack] Helic, I am very interested in your experiences with Armor as DR and Wound points, as well as how you implemented those systems. Please check out this thread.
[/thread jack]
An armor as DR rule would be almost mandatory because you want to keep AC low so people hit the tank without needing to roll a twenty. That goes for all rolls like saves vs spell DC's ect.. needing to roll a natural 20 on a d20 is bad enough but needing to roll it on 2d10 is horrific.
While talking about a 2d10 system I point you towards a new game coming out called Arcanis by Paradigm Concepts. They had a d20 version so the game has roots in 3.5 like pathfinder but they use 2d10+dX based on your attribute and use a tick initiative system. Their website has a download for a quick start they gave away on FreeRPG day.
I came upon this site, which allows you to enter several types of dice and have them all plotted on a single graph for direct compairison.
View: Graph and Data: Normal, At Least and At Most are really useful to see what changes you get when switching from one type of roll to another.
That way you can just look at the graph and see that the chance to get a 19-20 on 1d20 is about as high as getting a 17-20 on 2d10 or 15-20 on 3d6.