Armor choice advice

[Matt Beatty]

Playing an pouncing (at lvl 10) Invulnerable rage barbarian with all the associated AC negatives I can get (So AC is not to important). I am currently at lvl 4 and am going to buy armor. I need advice on which direction to go with my armor. Here are my two choices that I see.

1) Rhino Hide armor - +2 hide that gives a +2d6 damage on charge attacks. At lvl 10 this will be alot of damage. Downside is that its med armor so I take a hit to speed. No crit mitigation to begin with but could be added on as I progress.

2) +1 light fortification Mithril Breastplate - Better AC by 1. Light armor so I get full movement. Also has the beginings of fortification (I got crit last scenario with a +2 flaming burst greataxe. 45 points of damage makes you concider crit mitigation, especially with such a low AC).

Both armors would probably be upgraded along the fortification lines as I lvled.

Thanks for any advice.

[pipedreamsam]

Honestly Id go for the mithral as a barbarian in melee you are already pretty decked out offensively and +2d6 to damage really isn't a whole lot. Also if you want you could take vital strike which if you are using a greatsword is basically going to do the exact same thing (working in situations where you can't charge, but still have to move up to the enemy). Now if your were mounted the rhino hide becomes a different story entirely though you are not so my vote is for the mithral.

[james maissen]

Matt Beatty wrote:

Playing an pouncing (at lvl 10) Invulnerable rage barbarian with all the associated AC negatives I can get (So AC is not to important). I am currently at lvl 4 and am going to buy armor. I need advice on which direction to go with my armor.

Thanks for any advice.

Well back in 3e I would tell you to consider the appearance of a decent AC even if you didn't have one.

That would be due to the great flexibility in power attack and you wouldn't want to let the cat out of the bag that they should power attack for full against you.

In PF, with Power Attack being simply Boolean it's not as much of an issue as unless you can pull off the appearance to the extreme it's unlikely to be a factor.

So I would suggest the following thoughts:

1. How likely is the DM to throw a number of very low level opponents at the group? While others could almost ignore these threats, they will be able to hurt you and you will have to take them seriously. Towards this, how is the rest of the party set up in ways to deal with crowds of enemies?

2. What roles do you play in the party? Beyond simply dealing damage, do you in any way defend other PCs? How much healing is available during combat (almost expressly) for you? Are you in any way expected to tank rather than just be on the front lines to deal damage?

In general you want to consider how you fit in with the group.

Also another thought for consideration is that as the party levels the nature of the game is going to change. In fact it is likely to change several times over. So what might be good choices in the short term, might not be the same choices to make for later on.

Last thought, have you considered a vicious weapon? It deals +2d6 damage but deals +1d6 to you each time. Consider what your lowered AC and appearance of a low AC is going to cause you to suffer in terms of damage, and think if a vicious weapon is a better route for that extra damage. Heck you might want both (perhaps a +1 vicious merciful furious weapon). I suggest merciful as nonlethal damage gets cured in tandem with lethal damage.. and you are likely to be getting cured during combat and it might be a nice way to 'double up' on it. Mind you it will mean your weapon will not work against undead & constructs (until you can spend a standard action to deactivate it) so you might want a backup +1 furious weapon that you could draw on a charge for such cases...

Anyway, there's a few random thoughts for you,

James

[Matt Beatty]

pipedreamsam wrote:

Honestly Id go for the mithral as a barbarian in melee you are already pretty decked out offensively and +2d6 to damage really isn't a whole lot. Also if you want you could take vital strike which if you are using a greatsword is basically going to do the exact same thing (working in situations where you can't charge, but still have to move up to the enemy). Now if your were mounted the rhino hide becomes a different story entirely though you are not so my vote is for the mithral.

I agree. Right now +2d6 is not much but at 11 lvl its +6d6 on a charge (pounce will give me a full attack +2d6 per attack, 3 attacks). The idea being that stuff dies in one turn and I then charge to the next monster.

My worry is that I am thinking way to down the road and should be thinking in the now.

[Matt Beatty]

james maissen wrote:

Last thought, have you considered a vicious weapon? It deals +2d6 damage but deals +1d6 to you each time. Consider what your lowered AC and appearance of a low AC is going to cause you to suffer in terms of damage, and think if a vicious weapon is a better route for that extra damage. Heck you might want both (perhaps a +1 vicious merciful furious weapon). I...

Would the viscious damage be soakable by DR? It says that the damage is "energy" but does not give a type, so I am assumming that the word "energy" is just fluff and mechanically it adds 2d6 weapon damage to monster and 1d6 weapon damage to me.

[james maissen]

Matt Beatty wrote:

Would the viscious damage be soakable by DR? It says that the damage is "energy" but does not give a type, so I am assumming that the word "energy" is just fluff and mechanically it adds 2d6 weapon damage to monster and 1d6 weapon damage to me.

No, it would not. Vicious damage to the wielder bypasses DR. It doesn't bypass the half damage to the shield other caster however if you want to go that route (pick a friendly cleric that didn't take ranks in sense motive.. or better yet a gullible Paladin).

-James

[Argus The Slayer]

+7 damage 2d6 average) on a charge is nothing to sneeze at - especially at level 4. I would suggest checking with your DM on the Rhino Hide 2d6 applying to every attack that you do on a charge, as I can see some variation in the way that that might be interpreted.

If you are really tanking your AC, I would disagree with the idea of using a Vicious Weapon: you are already going to be taking a lot of HP damage as it is, since you are easy to hit -- doing damage to yourself isn't going to help the situation at all. On top of that, most enemies that pose a serious threat have way more than 2x your HP. Sacrificing X HP to do 2X damage isn't very productive when the enemy has 4 times your HP.

What are the rules in Pathfinder about upgrading specific armors like Rhino Hide? CAN you add Fortification to it???

[james maissen]

Argus The Slayer wrote:

If you are really tanking your AC, I would disagree with the idea of using a Vicious Weapon:

You might want to reread my full post on the subject.

-James

[pipedreamsam]

Matt Beatty wrote:

I agree. Right now +2d6 is not much but at 11 lvl its +6d6 on a charge (pounce will give me a full attack +2d6 per attack, 3 attacks). The idea being that stuff dies in one turn and I then charge to the next monster.

My worry is that I am thinking way to down the road and should be thinking in the now.

As a THW user you have room for feats so I still think going down the vital strike chain is a better option, but im not playing in your campaign so your strategy may be spot on. (in the campaign I am in now there is usually only 1-3 stronger enemies as opposed to several weaker ones.)

[Matt Beatty]

pipedreamsam wrote:

Matt Beatty wrote:

I agree. Right now +2d6 is not much but at 11 lvl its +6d6 on a charge (pounce will give me a full attack +2d6 per attack, 3 attacks). The idea being that stuff dies in one turn and I then charge to the next monster.

My worry is that I am thinking way to down the road and should be thinking in the now.

As a THW user you have room for feats so I still think going down the vital strike chain is a better option, but im not playing in your campaign so your strategy may be spot on. (in the campaign I am in now there is usually only 1-3 stronger enemies as opposed to several weaker ones.)

At lvl 10 vital strike becomes a useless feat. Why would I move normally and take one swing when I could charge twice the distance and make a full attack. At lower lvls vital strike can be useful, but all my feats are already planned out. Most barbarian feat lists look like this: Power attack, raging vitality, extra rage power, extra rage power, extra rage power, extra rage power, ... you get the point. The new rage powers are just too good.

Still, my conundrum distills down to to extra damage vs earlier fortification.

[Argus The Slayer]

james maissen wrote:

Argus The Slayer wrote:

If you are really tanking your AC, I would disagree with the idea of using a Vicious Weapon:

You might want to reread my full post on the subject.

-James

I did read (and reread) your post, but I didn't find anything that contradicted my statement.

Are you referring to the barbarian's role within the party? My experience is that NPC's aren't always respectful of a character's role in pen and paper RPGs: if you are doing a ton of damage (hopefully this barbarian will be laying down some serious smack!) and you are easy to hit (hence my comment about tanking your AC), you will frequently find yourself the target of your enemies' (collective) ire.

If you are referring to your statement on considering the availability of in-combat healing, I would say that in-combat healing is inefficient at best, especially if you are relying on another party member's actions to keep you on your feet.

[Dragonchess Player]

Matt Beatty wrote:

Playing an pouncing (at lvl 10) Invulnerable rage barbarian with all the associated AC negatives I can get (So AC is not to important). I am currently at lvl 4 and am going to buy armor. I need advice on which direction to go with my armor. Here are my two choices that I see.

1) Rhino Hide armor - +2 hide that gives a +2d6 damage on charge attacks. At lvl 10 this will be alot of damage. Downside is that its med armor so I take a hit to speed. No crit mitigation to begin with but could be added on as I progress.

2) +1 light fortification Mithril Breastplate - Better AC by 1. Light armor so I get full movement. Also has the beginings of fortification (I got crit last scenario with a +2 flaming burst greataxe. 45 points of damage makes you concider crit mitigation, especially with such a low AC).

Both armors would probably be upgraded along the fortification lines as I lvled.

Thanks for any advice.

Since you will be gaining a natural armor bonus from the Beast Totem rage power (required for the Greater Beast Totem rage power that grants pounce), you can probably afford the slight hit to AC from using rhino hide. You should probably start saving up for boots of striding and springing, as well, to increase your movement (important for charging builds).

You may also want to consider multiclassing for 2 levels in ranger for the Combat Style feat (Natural Weapon style, probably) and the ability to use a wand of barkskin, wand of cure light wounds, wand of entangle, wand of longstrider, etc. yourself (without needing to invest in Use Magic Device). During the middle levels (5th-10th level), wands are an extremely effective use of resources.