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We're starting an adventure path my buddy is running. My group consists of a paladin, witch, and a psion. I will be taking over rogue duties and it has been requested that I make a character that can serve as a secondary meat shield.
After some consideration I thought I would make a fighter with dexterity as his higher score. I thought that a mobile combatant with an emphasis on disarm / trip attacks would fill a decent support role.
He's a human made with point buy (18 points) and ends up with the following stats:
S: 12 D: 16 C: 12 I: 14 W: 12 Ch: 12
This includes the +2 to one ability score for being a human.
He is starting as a fighter with the following feats: Agile Maneuvers (1st), Combat Expertise (human), and Improved Disarm (fighter).
As for skills I took Bluff, Disable Device, Intimidate, Perception, and Stealth for my first level set.
I plan on rogue for second level and then another level of fighter for 3rd level, which would give me Improved Feint, Improved Trip, and Improved Disarm for feats by 3rd level. It's playing the system a little bit, but I figure I will need all the help I can get for role I'll be playing in this group
I've never made a character that makes heavy use of combat maneuvers before so I was hoping someone with a little bit more experience would look over the character and tell me what they think, as well as offer some suggestions about things I should know about heavy use of combat maneuvers like disarm and trip.
Thanks in advance.
First off I would consider re-doing your stats a bit.
Here is what I would do:
S: 13 (3) D: 16 (10) C: 14 (5) I: 12 (1) W: 10 (0) C: 8 (-2)
(+2 not included)
The paladin is definetly going to have to be the face you simply can't do it and fill the combat role your party wants as effectively as they probably want you too. Also as a word of advice skip feiting it just sucks stick with triping and disarming and you will do fine. If you happen to fight something that can't be tripped and uses a weapon that can't be disarmed then just try to flank it to get your sneak attack damage. You are going to be hurting for skills so the level in rouge is a good idea (maybe one or two more depending on how it works out)
Also how is your setup for weapons? A massive two-hander? Sword and board? Not and archer or TWF by feat selection.
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I hadn't considered weapon choices very much. What weapons would be best for a disarm / trip type of fighter? I was including the feint to deprive the opponent of his dexterity bonus to AC so I could sneak attack more frequently.
Would you recommend more fighter class levels over rogue, or would rogue be a better choice. I think fighter appealed to me for the fast access to a good number of feats early on, but seeing as I am new to this type of character nothing is really set in stone at this point.
Thank you for the suggestions. It gives me more to consider.
You may want to look at the Urban Ranger instead of a fighter/rogue. You will get overall better skills, and keep your full BAB. Since the urban ranger gets trap finding at 3rd level you should be able to fill the role of the rogue. You can also take the trapper archetype from ultimate magic. While the ranger does not get the sheer number of feats a fighter does his combat style feats ignore prerequisites. The urban ranger gets almost all of the rogue skills as class skill, and the ones he does not can be picked up with traits.
While the ranger does not get sneak attack he does get favored enemy which give a better chance to hit as well as damage. By staying a single class you can take advantage of the favored class bonus to get more skills.
If you really want the rogue levels you could multiclass as a ranger/rogue instead of a fighter/rogue. If so I would recommend half elf instead of human. Half elves get two favored classes so the skill points will be the same. The number of feats will also be the same except that the extra feat will be skill focus. Probably perception would be the best choice. A two weapon ranger/rogue will probably be your best bet for damage.
If you want to trip you will probably end up using a pole arm of some sort as they are usually the only weapons with trip.
I agree with Mysterious ranger on taking half-elf as your race instead of human (especially if you are going to play a fighter as the extra feat will mean less) The only problem with an urban ranger is going to be your tanking ability although with a high dex build you won't be wearing high armor anyway so it evens out.
If you opt for a half elf a suggestion of my would be to take the ancestral arms alternate racial trait.This allows you to swap out skill focus for either a martial or exotic wep proficiency. My recommendation to take would be the whip as it can both disarm and trip. (weapon enhancements add to your roll for combat maneuvers when using the selected weapon). This means that if you had a +3 whip you would add +3 to your CMB when making a disarm or trip check. Only problem with the whip is you can't use it against adjacent foes and your damage would be awful. So this gets in the way of the whole tanking thing your party wants you to do.
Point being that in order to build a rougeish character who can still take a hit is nearly impossible. One aspect of the build has to suffer, be it your trap finding and disabling abilities, your ability to take damage and remain standing, or your damage and combat maneuvers. In order for me to appropriately recommend something without feeling like I have wasted my time perhaps you could rate which roles are most important for me and I will try to come up with a build that fits the niche.
Please rate these in order from most to least important:
Rouge skills, Tanking ability, High DPR (damage per round), Effectiveness at combat maeuvers.
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...snip for space...
If you want to trip you will probably end up using a pole arm of some sort as they are usually the only weapons with trip.
The part I quoted makes me think I read the maneuver description wrong. Does the weapon have to have the trip quality to be used to trip? I have been playing catch up with the maneuvers because I normally take the role of wizard for our group and those rules don't normally apply to me.
As for the Urban Ranger, that might be the way I go. It certainly sounds like it fulfills everything my group needs. I've never played a Pathfinder Ranger before so I will definitely look into that.
You do not need a weapon with the trip quality in order to trip, but if your weapon does have that quality then you can add its enhancement bonus on the CMB check.
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Please rate these in order from most to least important:
Rouge skills, Tanking ability, High DPR (damage per round), Effectiveness at combat maeuvers.
Most important to least, as discussed by myself and another player just a short while ago would be as follows:
Combat Maneuvers -> Rogue Skills -> DPR = Tanking
Using combat maneuvers was the idea behind this character. I am not familiar with them so it was something that I wanted to explore with this character. I was looking for a highly mobile character that would put our opponents at a disadvantage and make my group's attacks more effective.
RE: trip weapon clarification. Thank you, I normally skim past that part and usually forget to use them when I do have them.
In order to maximize combat maneuver effectiveness you need the highest bonus possible. This is going to limit us to full BAB classes (Fighter, Ranger, Paladin, Cavalier) Monk could technically qualify, but can't fill the rouge or tank roles. You already have a paladin so thats out and a cavalier is not right at all. This leaves us with fighter (not many skill ranks) and ranger, specifically the urban ranger (this appears to be the best option).
So now starting from scratch we attempt to build an urban ranger who excells at being a scout, a trap detector/disarmer and a combat maneuver fiend.
Stats:
Str: 15 (7) Dex: 13 (3) Con: 12 (2) Int: 13 (3) Wis: 15 (7) Cha: 7 (-4)
Put your +2 racial into str and your first increase is going into dex then str from there its your call. Your race is human because you need the extra feat, bad.
As for your ranger bonus feats the only one you would really benefit from would be the Two Handed weapon tree. The best weapon I could come up with would be a heavy flail and have a buckler on to help with AC.
Feats:
Level 1: Combat expertiese ,Improved trip/disarm
Level 2: Power attack
Level 3: The other maneuver feat
At level four I recommend either the wolf or cheetah (due to the trip ability). The cheetah would be dex based and grow to a medium with 3 attacks and the wolf would end up large with one attack, but in a pinch it could function as a mount.
TWF build (switch dex with str in the point buy including racial bonus) Use a regular flail and a sickle in the off hand (disarm with flail trip with sickle). Same feat progression except for taking TWF at second level.
Another option (keep dex switched with str) is to use a flail and a shield with optional spikes. Level 2 feat would be improved shield bash.
Hope this gets you a good start I could go on, but I'll see if any of these options sound good first.
Doesn't shield bashing require TWF for you to get a shield attack in the first place?
Yeah you are right just change that (god it must be late if I forgot that I need to get some sleep))