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Ok I am having problems finding what the differences between what a Attack Action is from a Single Melee Attack from a Standard Action.
Basically this comes from me trying to figure out what attacks can be used in an AoE and if Combat Maneuvers can be used in an AoE.
It was described to me in the chat that only AoEs that say "in place of a
melee attack" can be used with an AoE and those that say "Standard action" Cannot.
My confusing stems from the fact that in your normal combat round a single melee attack is an Standard action so I am having problems finding in the rules where it distinguishes the difference between the two.
I have been told that it is different but no one has been able to point out where it says that.
If anyone can point out to me where it is distinguished that would be great!
I have been told that it is different but no one has been able to point out where it says that.
It is different. I can't provide page numbers (haven't played in a while) but an attack action is one attack. If you have a high BAB and you take a full-attack, you get multiple attack actions- however, if you move and make one attack, you have to use a standard action instead of an attack action (since "attack action" isn't really a quantifiable thing, since different characters can get different numbers of attacks, and to make combat simpler the types of actions were simplified- so if you spend a move action, you only are allowed one standard action). It's like this: An attack action can be a standard action, but NOT vice-versa.
It's confusing, I know. But if something can be used in place of an attack, or an attack action, you CAN use it on an Attack of Opportunity or at the end of a charge. But if it takes a standard action, you cannot (unless it has a specific clause saying you can).
(Also, I'm assuming by "AoE" you mean "AoO".)
An attack action is a standard action to make a single melee attack.
A trip can be made with any attack, including iteratives and attacks of opportunity or cleaves, etc. Vital Strike requires an attack action, in other words a single melee attack and thus does not work with iteratives.
Please disregard the previous poster he has it completely garbled and wrong.
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An attack action is a standard action to make a single melee attack.
A trip can be made with any attack, including iteratives and attacks of opportunity or cleaves, etc. Vital Strike requires an attack action, in other words a single melee attack and thus does not work with iteratives.
Please disregard the previous poster he has it completely garbled and wrong.
But why Can't say Grapple be used with an AoO?
An attack action is a standard action to make a single melee attack.
A trip can be made with any attack, including iteratives and attacks of opportunity or cleaves, etc. Vital Strike requires an attack action, in other words a single melee attack and thus does not work with iteratives.
Please disregard the previous poster he has it completely garbled and wrong.
But why Can't say Grapple be used with an AoO?
Read the rules for grapple. It requires a standard action to start a grapple, which an attack of opportunity is not. The obvious exception to this is something that has the grab special ability which allows them to make a grapple check after any successful attack.
Edit: very confusing cut and paste error.
Please disregard the previous poster he has it completely garbled and wrong.
Um... what exactly did I have wrong?
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Read the rules for grapple. It requires a standard action to start a grapple, which an attack of opportunity is not. The obvious exception to this is something that has the grab special ability which allows them to make a grapple check after any successful attack.Edit: very confusing cut and paste error.
Ok.. There right there is the Problem I am having. I know know it does not say AoO is a Standard Action, it says a Single Melee Attack. But in my weird circular logic I know a Single Melee attack is also a Standard Action.
So Where in the the Rules does it Distinguish the difference between a Single Melee attack and a Standard action, which is what my OP is asking.
I am looking for the reference here...
Read the rules for grapple. It requires a standard action to start a grapple, which an attack of opportunity is not. The obvious exception to this is something that has the grab special ability which allows them to make a grapple check after any successful attack.Edit: very confusing cut and paste error.
Ok.. There right there is the Problem I am having. I know know it does not say AoO is a Standard Action, it says a Single Melee Attack. But in my weird circular logic I know a Single Melee attack is also a Standard Action.
So Where in the the Rules does it Distinguish the difference between a Single Melee attack and a Standard action, which is what my OP is asking.
I am looking for the reference here...
On your turn, and only on your turn, you get a Move action a Swift action and a Standard action. A standard action can be to cast a spell, make an attack, swig a potion, activate a wand, etc etc etc. A move action can be to draw a weapon or pick up an item or move your movement speed etc etc. With that standard action you can make a single attack. Instead of taking a move AND a standard action you can take a full-round action, which includes a full attack (including iterative attacks).
If an attack of opportunity was a Standard Action you could cast a spell with it, or convert it to a move action and move 30 feet, etc. It is only an attack. SOME combat maneuvers (such as trip) can be made instead of any melee attack, which includes AoOs and therefore you could make multiple such maneuvers if you have multiple attacks through base attack bonus or haste, etc, but Grapple (for example) requires a Standard Action, not just any melee attack. Standard Actions, like Move, Swift or Full-Round, only happen ON YOUR TURN when you're taking said action and you only get one a round.
Can't help you with the reference, but I went ahead and clicked the FAQ button for you.
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Read the rules for grapple. It requires a standard action to start a grapple, which an attack of opportunity is not. The obvious exception to this is something that has the grab special ability which allows them to make a grapple check after any successful attack.Edit: very confusing cut and paste error.
Ok.. There right there is the Problem I am having. I know know it does not say AoO is a Standard Action, it says a Single Melee Attack. But in my weird circular logic I know a Single Melee attack is also a Standard Action.
So Where in the the Rules does it Distinguish the difference between a Single Melee attack and a Standard action, which is what my OP is asking.
I am looking for the reference here...
A single attack is an example of a standard action. A standard action is not limited to being a single attack. The attack action is a subset of the standard action.
Some combat manoeuvres replace attack actions, such as trip or sunder which can be used as AoO. Others, such as grapple are their own unique type of standard action and cannot.
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But in my weird circular logic I know a Single Melee attack is also a Standard Action.
Don't think of it that way. Think of it this way:
You have a dollar. (A standard action.)
A dollar can get you one candy bar. (One standard action can get you one attack.)
The store has a sale for frequent shoppers that lets you get several candy bars for two dollars if you're a frequent shopper- some people can get seven or eight candy bars for two dollars. (If you spend a full-round action, which one could argue is like two standard actions, you can, depending on your level/feats/whatever, get multiple attacks.)
If you have a coupon for a free candy bar, you can trade it for one candy bar, but you can't trade it for something else that also costs a dollar because you're not getting a dollar, you're getting a free candy bar. But you CAN use it for any candy bar, not just a Hershey's bar. (If you get a free attack, from an AoO or at the end of a charge or whatever, you can only use it for things that are the equivalent to one attack. A standard action, however, can be used for so many different things, that the two aren't equivalent, even though using a standard action for an attack typically only gets you one attack.)
Does that analogy help, or was that just confusing?
Um... what exactly did I have wrong?
Pretty much everything.
Nope, you have multiple attacks. An attack action is a melee attack made using a standard action.
It is different. I can't provide page numbers (haven't played in a while) but an attack action is one attack. If you have a high BAB and you take a full-attack, you get multiple attack actions-
. It's like this: An attack action can be a standard action, but NOT vice-versa.No. An attack action IS a standard action...used to make an attack. Therefore a standard action CAN be an attack action, but can also be drinking a potion or casting a spell, among many many other things
It's confusing, I know. But if something can be used in place of an attack, or an attack action, you CAN use it on an Attack of Opportunity or at the end of a charge. But if it takes a standard action, you cannot (unless it has a specific clause saying you can).
Again, wrong. If something requires an attack action, which is a standard action used to make a single melee attack, then you BY DEFINITION cannot use it on a charge, which is a Full Round Action, or with a full attack, or on an attack of opportunity. Vital Strike for example cannot be used on attacks of opportunity since it requires an attack action, which is a standard action, and you only get actions on your turn.
Some stuff I apprently had wrong
Then that must be a terminology change from 3.5. In 3.5, an attack action was the action it took to make an attack, whether that attack was by itself, as an AoO, or a Full-Attack. (Actions like trip, disarm, etc. were attack actions, which could be taken in place of an AoO or at the end of a charge.)
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If an attack of opportunity was a Standard Action you could cast a spell with it, or convert it to a move action and move 30 feet, etc
Someone said the same thing to me, But sorry no you Can't.
Pg 180 "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round."
Since it says Melee attack you can not cast a spell or Move with an AoO.
That said, I Still looking for the Reference guys...
Ok.. There right there is the Problem I am having. I know know it does not say AoO is a Standard Action, it says a Single Melee Attack. But in my weird circular logic I know a Single Melee attack is also a Standard Action.
So Where in the the Rules does it Distinguish the difference between a Single Melee attack and a Standard action, which is what my OP is asking.
I am looking for the reference here...
A single melee attack is a standard action when performed during your turn. Edit:page 182:"Making an attack is a standard action."
A single melee attack is not an action when performed as an Attack of Opportunity when it is not your turn. Edit:page 180:"These free attacks are called attacks of opportunity." "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round." There is no mention of 'actions' within the AoO rules, as these are not actions.
See edits above. Pages 180 & 182 CRB.
Do you have an alternate interpretation to put forth?
If an attack of opportunity was a Standard Action you could cast a spell with it, or convert it to a move action and move 30 feet, etcSomeone said the same thing to me, But sorry no you Can't.
Pg 180 "An attack of opportunity is a single melee attack, and most characters can only make one per round."
Since it says Melee attack you can not cast a spell or Move with an AoO.
That said, I Still looking for the Reference guys...
You just answered your own question with the quote. An attack of opporunity is NOT A STANDARD ACTION it is only an attack. Period. End of story.
You keep asking for reference but YOU HAVE ALREADY QUOTED FROM IT.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
See the action section where it defines the different action types.
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You just answered your own question with the quote. An attack of opporunity is NOT A STANDARD ACTION it is only an attack. Period. End of story.
You keep asking for reference but YOU HAVE ALREADY QUOTED FROM IT.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
See the action section where it defines the different action types.
That section would be useful if it described an Attack Action or a Single Attack vs a Standard Action.
Anyway I found my answer in my post above yours.
You just answered your own question with the quote. An attack of opporunity is NOT A STANDARD ACTION it is only an attack. Period. End of story.
You keep asking for reference but YOU HAVE ALREADY QUOTED FROM IT.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
See the action section where it defines the different action types.
That section would be useful if it described an Attack Action or a Single Attack vs a Standard Action.
Anyway I found my answer in my post above yours.
It does though, look harder. The action "Attack" is defined as a type of Standard Action, both on the table and in the description. That's what people mean when they say Attack action, the type of Standard Action described under the Attack heading (melee, ranged, or unarmed).
Attacks of opportunities are not actions at all, but are nonetheless attacks.
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My confusing stems from the fact that in your normal combat round a single melee attack is an Standard action so I am having problems finding in the rules where it distinguishes the difference between the two.
The Attack action, which is a standard action (p. 182-183), allows you to make a single attack (one swing of a melee weapon, one unarmed strike, one swipe with a natural weapon, or one shot with a ranged weapon).
Other actions and effects also allow you to make one or multiple attacks, such as the Full Attack action, the Flurry of Blows action, the Charge action, the Cast a Spell action if it's a touch spell, or the Attack of Opportunity effect.