RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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What's worth taking, and what's not?
I've been playing Pathfinder long enough to have a pretty decent grasp on the rules, but nowhere near long enough to have discovered which feats/spells/abilities/etc are hidden gems and which ones just don't measure up. For instance, only within the last couple of months did I discover that Burning Hands sucks at level 1 (while Color Spray is good), fighters are all but assumed to take Power Attack, having less than about 12-14 CON is considered risky business, Wands of Cure Light Wounds are the bread and butter of healing, I never hear anyone talk about taking Fleet or Alertness, etc.
So I'm looking for more of these truisms and guidelines; not to build my characters for me, but to give me a starting point. What are some feats that most characters should at least look at? Although I'm hoping to get some general guidelines, I'm also interested in feat suggestions for my two PFS characters:
Asharel
Level 1
STR 12
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 10
Traits: Resilient, Expert Duelist
Feat: Weapon Finesse
Fort +4, Reflex +4, Will +4
Equipment: MW Rapier, MW Buckler, MW Chain Shirt, Sling
Cledwyn
Level 3
STR 18
DEX 14
CON 12
INT 13
WIS 12
CHA 8
Traits: Captain's Blade, Armor Expert
Feats: Dodge, Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Improved Trip, Iron Will
Fort +5, Reflex +4, Will +5
Equipment: MW Flail, +1 Buckler, +1 Full Plate, Cloak of Resistance +1, MW Composite Longbow (STR+3)
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My cleric character (dwarf, 10 CHA) has often been very glad to have Extra Channel. Being to heal comrades or injure undead two more times helps! Selective Channel would have been nice on at least one occasion. It can be discouraging when the fight is almost over and the cleric heals some of the monsters you just killed.
What's worth taking, and what's not?
I've been playing Pathfinder long enough to have a pretty decent grasp on the rules, but nowhere near long enough to have discovered which feats/spells/abilities/etc are hidden gems and which ones just don't measure up. For instance, only within the last couple of months did I discover that Burning Hands sucks at level 1 (while Color Spray is good), fighters are all but assumed to take Power Attack, having less than about 12-14 CON is considered risky business, Wands of Cure Light Wounds are the bread and butter of healing, I never hear anyone talk about taking Fleet or Alertness, etc.
So I'm looking for more of these truisms and guidelines; not to build my characters for me, but to give me a starting point. What are some feats that most characters should at least look at? Although I'm hoping to get some general guidelines, I'm also interested in feat suggestions for my two PFS characters:
Asharel
** spoiler omitted **Swap STR 12 for CHA 10 the +1 damage is not worth the trade of one more burst. I would say Dodge, mobilty, Spring Attack, Extra Turning, Selcetive Turning, Vital Strike, Additional Traits,Reach Spell meta magic, Imporved Critcal, Precise Strike team work,Wind Stance*,Improved Initiative*,Toughness,
Cledwyn
** spoiler omitted **
mobilty, Spring Attack,Vital Strike, Additional Traits,Imporved Critcal, Precise Strike team work,Wind Stance*,Improved Initiative*,Toughness, Dity fighting,Power Attack cleave, Step up,
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@Tom: Thanks for the direct feedback, but there are a couple of issues. One, the characters already exist, so I can't swap ability scores. Two, as I said, these are PFS characters; this means that Teamwork is unavailable and that some of the feat chains you suggest for the cleric are unfeasible due to a level 12 cap. If you had to narrow down your lists with those things in mind, what would you suggest?
@Jeremiziah: Thanks! My biggest dilemma is with Asharel, as the only feat I specifically had in mind when I made him was Weapon Finesse and I don't really know where to go from there.
@Karrek: I've indeed considered Extra Channel. Someone else also suggested Improved Initiative, to build on his high DEX.
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Your elf cleric might have problems doing positive energy burst in melee since you have a 10 cha and no Selective Channeling. Right now, you heal all your enemies too when you burst. No problem for outside of melee, but something to consider when building clerics.
If you play in a homebrew, with an experienced GM, you may find you have brought "dead" monsters back to life with positive energy burst, if they were only barely killed by a point or two. This shouldnt apply in PFS games though.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Your elf cleric might have problems doing positive energy burst in melee since you have a 10 cha and no Selective Channeling. Right now, you heal all your enemies too when you burst. No problem for outside of melee, but something to consider when building clerics.
If you play in a homebrew, with an experienced GM, you may find you have brought "dead" monsters back to life with positive energy burst, if they were only barely killed by a point or two. This shouldnt apply in PFS games though.
That was something I considered, but since this is PFS and I can wave around a Wand of CLW (and have a move speed of 40 ft), I shouldn't need to channel during combat too much - I can just do some post-combat group hugs. Relatedly, if most/all of us are injured, and one or more are dying, then giving an enemy back a mere 1d6 in exchange for stabilizing an ally or two and healing about 4d6 - 5d6 among the lot of us seems worthwhile.
But again, this characters have already been made, so I'm looking for ideas of what to do going forward, not what I could do differently if I were making them all over again.
Even so, I appreciate the input, and any ideas for helping out with that style of role would be greatly appreciated. :)
Oh, and for a more specific question: what about Step Up? I could see Asharel being a foil to casters, in that he could (on a decent Init roll) use his 40ft speed to get up next to one, then when they try to 5-foot away to cast, he follows them so he can try and disrupt them with damage. Thoughts?
@Tom: Thanks for the direct feedback, but there are a couple of issues. One, the characters already exist, so I can't swap ability scores. Two, as I said, these are PFS characters; this means that Teamwork is unavailable and that some of the feat chains you suggest for the cleric are unfeasible due to a level 12 cap. If you had to narrow down your lists with those things in mind, what would you suggest?
@Jeremiziah: Thanks! My biggest dilemma is with Asharel, as the only feat I specifically had in mind when I made him was Weapon Finesse and I don't really know where to go from there.
@Karrek: I've indeed considered Extra Channel. Someone else also suggested Improved Initiative, to build on his high DEX.
Dodge, mobilty, Spring Attack, Extra Turning, , Vital Strike, Additional Traits,Reach Spell meta magic, , Wind Stance*,Improved Initiative*,Toughness, Point Blank, Rapid shot
Here what I see you are healer/ light fighter/ maybe Archer/ by stat/class/ Domains/feat and Traits taken so far.
Your damage will never be that great. Your big strenght should be AC and Mobilty by being in the right spot and the right time. Set the Flank, be able to heal, cast the clean up mess spell(ie Remove fear and supress charm ect).
It it where me
Level 3 dodge
Level 5 Mobilty
Level 7 Spring Attack
Level 9 meta Magic Reach
level 11 Wind stance/ Toughness
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If it where me
Level 3 dodge
Level 5 Mobilty
Ooooh, not a bad idea. Total battlefield mobility. I like it!
On the other hand, I could use Skill Focus: Acrobatics to tumble past opponents to avoid AoO's (maybe even dip a level of rogue to make it a class skill - and to get lots of extra ranks). I'd have to move at half speed, but even that's still 20ft, or I could just use my 40ft to go around people. I could also use Bit of Luck prior to the tumbling to make it nigh-infallible. Doing it that way would save me a feat.
Would that be worthwhile, do you think?
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Re: Cleric of Desna
If you think you will be in the fray, Combat Casting and Toughness.
If you think you will be out of the fray, Reach Spell for ranged heals, Point Blank Shot, and Deadly Aim to use your bow with that 18 dex. Which raises the question, why a sling instead of a bow for an elf?
Are you planning on staying a cleric or switching out for something else? If staying cleric, personally I would go with staying out of combat and using a bow or spells. Unless you take some levels of rogue or something that will increase your damage, all you will be eventually doing in putting yourself in harm's way for a nominal amount of rapier damage. Using a holy or flaming bow with Deadly Aim could net you a bit of damage without the risk of close combat.
It really just depends on how you see your character.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Re: Cleric of Desna
If you think you will be in the fray, Combat Casting and Toughness.
If you think you will be out of the fray, Reach Spell for ranged heals, Point Blank Shot, and Deadly Aim to use your bow with that 18 dex. Which raises the question, why a sling instead of a bow for an elf?
Are you planning on staying a cleric or switching out for something else? If staying cleric, personally I would go with staying out of combat and using a bow or spells. Unless you take some levels of rogue or something that will increase your damage, all you will be eventually doing in putting yourself in harm's way for a nominal amount of rapier damage. Using a holy or flaming bow with Deadly Aim could net you a bit of damage without the risk of close combat.
It really just depends on how you see your character.
I haven't decided whether or not to multiclass, actually. At the moment, his value is his versatility/flexibility. Being a PFS character, I never know what sorts of allies he'll have or what sort of awkward combat scenarios he'll be in. In one encounter so far, he used Agile Feet to stroll through about 30ft of difficult terrain and get stabby with an enemy caster, then in another, he stood outside a hallway, repeatedly using Bit of Luck on the wizard who was flinging Acid Dart SLAs at a troll.
I'd sort of like to split him between fighting and casting/support, but I'm not sure the best way.
The sling is because he's only got so much gold so far, and also Magic Stone seemed like a good first-level spell. He'll probably get a bow soon.
I've considered dipping a level or two of something to expand his options while still making most of his levels be cleric.
I could dip fighter for BAB, HP, and feat(s).
I could dip rogue for skills, sneak attack, and a talent (if I dipped 2 levels).
I could dip ranger for skills (though sadly not Acrobatics), BAB, HP, favored enemy and a no-prereq Precise Shot (if I did 2 levels).
I wouldn't dip all of those, but any one of them could be interesting.
I've also considered an eventual entrance into Duelist.
There are just so many options! :S
As far Mass Community type of play... Pick a roll and do your job well
So I would not multi class. If was I write up the PC as Straight Cleric
vs Cleric x/ Class Y in 12 level build and compare level by level and as whole. Then see which one I liked more.
As far as Skills well you have INT of ten, you’re not human, and you’re in class that gives 2 per level. I would give up on Acrobatics at best put 3 ranks in it so you can fight better defensively hope for good roll I would rely on AC , Sanctuary Spell to move past bad guys, and smart table play you have high movement build on that(get boots of striding and springing). Look as the DC that you are going to need to get past look at monster your level +3 and see what there CMD is. if you need to roll 15 with your skill total or more it not worth in get in that race. If you must go those paths then look for Trait that gives it to you as class skill with +1. (Plus you get some other small thing as well)You pick up net +4 that way vs +3. Yes you could +6 with Skill Focus at level 10-12 but I would rather have +4 at level 1-12. Buy a INT item and put in it acrobatics. I think escape artist is more important that acrobatics. Grapple in pathfinder brutal. Remember damage is not you job clean up the mess is. You are “MR Johnny on the Spot” to be in the Right spot at the right time to help fix the mess.