Class Level / Caster Level / Spell Level Questions

[Thaminox]

I have a Wizy that's about to reach 2nd level.

I'm a bit confused on what exactly do "Class Level", "Caster Level" and "Spell Level" mean and what's the difference?

I'm pretty sure Class Level is the level your character is, so my wizy would be a 2nd level caster...right?

Caster level, is it the same as your Class level...?

Reading on pg 208 (Core Rule Book 4th Printing), it is stated that " A spell's power often depends on it's caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell"

So by reading that, If my wizy is Class Level 2, the Caster Level is also level 2 which would allow me to pick up 2nd level spells, but that doesn't match what the Wizy chart on pg 80 shows.

The chart on page 80 says at 2nd level I'm not able to cast any 2nd level spells...even though by the description on pg 208, I should be able to pick up 2nd level spells due to being a 2nd level caster... /sigh

I must be missing something because I seem to recall a looong time ago when I played a Wizy, I couldn't cast fireball (spell level 3) until I hit caster level 5, but according to what I've read so far, I should be able to cast Break Enchantment (spell level 5) when I'm a 5th level Wizy.

Any help on where I can read and find some answers would be great.

[TriOmegaZero]

Spell Level is what tier of spells you have access to.
This is determined by your classes spell progression chart, not your Class Level. Or rather, not directly determined by your Class Level. How many Class Levels you have tells you where on the spell progression chart you look to get your number of spells and spell levels available.

Class Level is how many levels you have in a class.
Thus, a 2nd level Wizard has a Class Level of 2, and a 1st level Wizard/ 1st level Fighter has a Class Level of 1 for both classes. When he reaches 3rd level, whichever of his classes he raises to 2nd has a Class Level of 2, while the other remains at 1 Class Level.

Caster Level is determined by how many Class Levels you have in your spellcasting class and is used in calculating spell powers. However, other things add to your Caster Level, such as feats, magic items, and prestige classes that add spellcasting progression. Some classes use a different formula to determine Caster Level, such as the Ranger and Paladin.

[Lathiira]

OK. Let's sort these things out.

Character level. This is the sum of all levels you possess in your class(es).

Class level. This is your level in one given class.

Caster level. This is the level at which your spells operate in a given class.

Spell level. This is the level of a given spell. Depending on what class is casting that spell, the spell level may vary.

Your character is a 2nd level wizard. Therefore, he is:

Character level: 2
Class level (wizard): 2
Caster level: 2

Now, if you consult the wizard spellcasting table in the Core book, you will find you do not have access to 2nd level spells, not until you are a 3rd level wizard.

Caster level can increase without gaining levels in the wizard class. There are a few magic items that can do this. You could also eventually take levels in a prestige class such as Eldritch Knight that increases your caster level without increasing your wizard level.

Now, let's see how these things can differ in another character. My longtime character is a cloistered cleric 10, contemplative 9. Therefore, her levels are:

Character level: 19. This is the sum of her levels in all her classes.
Class level: 10 and 9. She has 10 cloistered cleric levels, 9 in contemplative.
Caster level: 19. It happens that her contemplative class is a prestige class that grants a boost to caster level, including spells per day, at each level of contemplative. My character casts spells as a 19th level cleric.
Spell level: As a 19th level spellcaster, I have access to 9th level spells and all levels below them from the cleric spell list.

Spell level is divorced from class level. On average, your primary spellcasters (clerics, druids, sorcerers, wizards, witches, and oracles) can cast spells of a level equal to one half their class level if single-classed with a maximum of 9th level spells. There's slight variation because sorcerers get spells of a given spell level one level later than wizards.

Spell level is used in determining saving throw DCs.

Now, let me point out something to you. If you go through the spell section of the Core book, you'll never find a spell of a higher level than 9, yet the wizard class goes to level 20. It'd be strange to find we're missing all the spells of higher levels, eh? :) No, we're not, a caster tends to spend 2 levels of time (wizard levels 1 and 2, for this example) working through a given level of spells. Your character will get to enjoy the fun of web and glitterdust and acid arrow at next level.

Hope this helps!

[thepuregamer]

caster lvl:

Caster Level: A spell's power often depends on caster level, which is defined as the caster's class level for the purpose of casting a particular spell. A creature with no classes has a caster level equal to its Hit Dice unless otherwise specified. The word “level” in the short descriptions that follow always refers to caster level.

class lvl:

Class Level: The level of a character in a particular class.

character lvl:

Character Level: The sum of a character's class levels.

So basically if you start at lvl 1. Your character lvl is 1.

Lets say your a lvl 1 wizard. Thus your wizard class lvl is 1 and thus your wizard caster lvl is 1. When you lvl up again, you can take a 2nd lvl in wizard. This would bring your character lvl, wizard class lvl, and wizard caster lvl up to 2. If you took a lvl in something else like rogue. Your character lvl would go up to 2 but then you would have 1 class lvl of wizard at caster lvl 1 and 1 class lvl of rogue.

edit writing more... checking to see if I am being ninja'd

definitely ninja'd...

So spell lvl is also pretty simple. As a lvl 1 wizard you have access to lvl 1 spells and lvl 0 spells(cantrips). There is a table in the class that tells you how often you can cast lvl 1 spells. As you lvl, you gain access to higher lvl spells and that same table should tell you when you gain them and how many spell slots of each lvl you have.

[SunsetPsychosis]

Class level, caster level, and spell level are seperate entities, though somewhat related. Note that there are only 9 levels of spells, yet 20 levels of class progression. You don't gain access to a spell level at the equivalent character level (1st level is the only real exception to this). Access to spell levels is class dependent.

In your example, a 2nd level wizard would have a class level of two, a caster level of two, but not access to 2nd level spells, because the class does not gain access until level 3.

A wizard 3 gains access to 2nd level spells. But a sorcerer 3 would still only have 1st level spells, according to class progression.

A fighter 1/wizard 1 would also have a CHARACTER level of two, but would only be considered having a class level of 1 for his wizard class, and thus only caster level 1, and only access to 1st levels equal to a 1st level wizard.

In the majority of cases, your caster level is equal to your class level in the class that is granting you the spellcasting ability. Note that caster levels from separate caster classes do NOT stack (such as a wizard 1/cleric 1). There are a few exceptions to this, but they are all explicitly stated.

Hopefully I cleared things up a bit for you.

Edit: Wow, ninja'd several times XD

[Thaminox]

Thanks all for the quick reply's!!!

I wished the rulebook would clear this up a bit instead of having to see a chart.

Something written out like- You gain access to the next higher spell level every two caster levels or for the most part, evey odd numbered caster level up to 17th level.

It all makes sense to me now, but for someone that's just starting out and doesn't know about this msgbrd, it can be a bit confusing with the lack of specifically addressing in writing in the core rule book what spell level means and when you gain access to the next level of spells.

It's just weird that there is a whole chapter devoted to Magic, but it doesn't explain what we all just talked about here.

Thanks again all for the help :)

And, why is Kenny Rogers pictured on pg 217 ;)