First off, if you play 4E, you need to get out of that mindset. In Pathfinder, things aren't as cut and dry as Cleric = healer (leader), Rogue = damage (striker), paladin = tank (defender), and wizard = damage (striker or controller). There are so many more options of ways to build a character. You could have a wizard 'tank', a paladin healer, a cleric striker, and a rogue controller if built right.
Human or Dwarven fighters are solid. If you want to be able to really dish out the hurt, you're better off going with human, because of the racial strength bonus. Two-handed fighting is the best way to go for raw damage output. A basic sample 1st level human fighter would be
Str 18 (16+2 racial)
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 10
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, and Weapon Focus (Falchion). Favored class bonus to hit points. Assuming standard starting gear, you'd have
HP: 13
AC: 17 (scale mail, +2 dex)
Fort +4, Ref +2, Will +2
Attack: Falchion, +5 for 2d4+9 (assuming Power Attack), with an 18-20/x2 crit range. That's some impressive damage for a first level character, and with Cleave you can potentially hit two enemies in a turn.
If you're going to play in the Ustalav setting you may want to look at the possibility of a Paladin or an Inquisitor.. Possibly a Ranger.. They're all pretty tanky and can do some decent damage. Fighter is also an option though. As far as race goes.. I suggest Human for various reasons, mostly story related. Good luck and I hope you have fun! :D
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If you are wanting to take some punishment and redistribute it as well might I suggest a barbarian. They have a whopping D12 fur hit dice and are great at dealing the damage as well. Gotta love the rage! If you are thinking of playing a dwarf they get a bonus to con more hp and potential rage pool! The main thing is have fun and play what you want. Welcome to the boards and let us know how it goes.
Note that all the Cure spells are touch spells, so if the cleric just plans on 'standing back and healing' he'll be sorely disappointed. And in Pathfinder, it's all about action economy. Nine times out of ten, it's better to spend an action killing an enemy than it is to heal the damage. Invest in a Wand of Cure Light Wounds as soon as you can, and use it to heal between fights.
What you'll be doing a lot is providing a flanking buddy for the rogue. Between your massive damage and his sneak attack, you'll be able to decimate most enemies pretty damn hard.
Good traits for that build would be:
Combat: Anatomist, Killer, Fearless, Reactionary
Equipment: Heirloom Weapon
Social: Bully
Religion: Indomitable Faith
Magic: Skeptic
Regional: Osirian Tomb Raider, Aspiring Hellknight, Bandit, Dominator, Viking Blood
Just some random useful traits off the top of my head.
Rogues and Mages aren't terribly good damage dealers TBH.
Rogues aren't terribly good anything really, but that's another discussion.
Wizard is all about control and disabling, and a certain amount of party buffage (haste, etc.). Do a quick search for Treantmonk's Guide to Wizard.
Rogues and Mages do pretty solid damage, their damage is just more situational than the "I Power Attack it" strategy of fighters, or the "I rage, then Power Attack it" of barbarians. Mages are excellent controllers, as magic gives them access to effects that just can't be replicated through other means. A Whirlwind Attack fighter can consistently do Fireball damage, but he can't make the party invisible, or fly. Rogues do solid numbers with the right builds, while maintaining an excellent degree of skill out of combat.
25 Pt buy means that you can consider a Human Druid for maximum ownage - especially around level 7.
Go for a shifting melee druid (as cat or bear) and get a great cat familiar. Read about the charge, pounce and rake rules to see why this is great. Get Power Attack and Natural Spell as feats.
Basically go with 18 (16+2) STR, 16 CON, 14 WIS, 12 DEX, 10 INT and 8 CHR. While you lag behind just a bit at level 1-4 you absoultely own from then on until at the very high levels the Fighter/Barbarian is able to overtake you. But even then you still have a lot of utility in addition to being a very viable close combatant.
Except for Monk and Rogue (although Rogue is great if combat is not playing a big role in your group) all the classes can be great and fill many roles.
Also note that healing isn't really required during combat, so going without a dedicated healer is fully feasible if you are prepared to spend some money on "in between healing" via Wands. Same with "tanking" via AC.
Finally, as has being said, Rogues suck at damage dealing unless they can set up the target (hard to do) and Wizards/Sorcs are also sub otimal. If you want awesome damage go Archer (Ranger/Fighter) or Great Weapon user (Fighter/Barbarian/Paladin) or shifting Druid.
If the APG is allowed, also consider Oracle of Battle or Halfling Cavalier on a Riding Dog (always fun and able to do obscene amounts of damage on a charge with a Lance).
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Dwarf Bard (Arcane Duelist)
Str 17
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 12
Wis 10
Cha 12
Feet: Martial Weapon Proficiency: Great Axe, Arcane Strike
Traits: Killer, Focused Mind
Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Perform Oratry, Stealth, Use Magic Device.
Bard Abilitys
Rallying Cry, Fascinate, Inspire Courage +1,
Bardic Performance 5round/day
Equipment: Greataxe, Chain Shirt, 80gp
For somthing a bit difrent.
Okay speaking to one of my buddies this is what he sent me...
This will definitely be balanced between combat & roleplay. We are playing in the land of Ustalav. Should be lots of Undead...sort of a "gothic horror" type setting. We without a doubt need a second up-front warrier type.
Ken and I are playing followers of the Goddess Iomedae. Fighters look versatile as hell. Cavaliers look interesting...Rod said mounts won't be wasted, but of course not always useful. Magus' look very interesting if you are into fighter/mage. I would lead you away from the bard currently. There bonus buffing will not stack with some of the stuff I am going to do. Barbarian and Ranger could obviously work as well.
If a Cavalier of Iomeade appealed to you...then me, you and Ken could form a little triumvirate of the faith. He and I are coming from a region known as Lastwall. Our whole purpose is to fight undead and make sure that the Lich King stays imprisoned in an area known as Gallowspire (which is in Ustalav, but on the border with Lastwall). Just some ideas.
So taking a look at the Cavalier I dropped some minor coin to support Pazio and piced up.. the Caveliers orders suppliment.. just to tease myself and see what other six orders there are and feats .. the order of the Griffon really stood out too me & Order of the Gauntlet..
I have played scores of fighters in my long long role playing times .. and only a few Caveliers so I am thinking more and more the idea of bringing in something 'differnt' but that can toe the lie and still dish out damage might just be this class..
Suggestions? Comments?? I have until July 10th to decide ...
Thanks one and all.
Rog 'Brute' GGG
Your GM is being VERY generous with your group.
Cavalier built around a 'team' order are an excellent choice, as are the teamwork feats. A trio of Iomedaen devotees with a few choice teamwork feats will go a long way in helping your group survive.
Paladin dovetails with this nicely, especially at the later levels with their auras, lay on hands and other paladin abilities. They make excellent secondary healers.
I suggest ALL of you take skill ranks in Heal and get it to where you can reliably aid each other on Heal checks. Just because it is not on the skill list does not mean you cannot take ranks in it. Perception is the other "must have" skill, trumping the Heal skill in this regard.
The rogue is one of the three or four front-liners' flanking buddies - he sneaks or runs around to attain flank. There is a particularly nasty feat called "Gang Up" in the APG (where the Cavalier is) that will be of particular value to the rogue.
Traits are found in the back of the APG as well. I suggest taking at least one trait that shores up any 'weak spots' your character has - such as various Will saves for the fighter types.
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Okay speaking to one of my buddies this is what he sent me...
This will definitely be balanced between combat & roleplay. We are playing in the land of Ustalav. Should be lots of Undead...sort of a "gothic horror" type setting. We without a doubt need a second up-front warrier type.
Ken and I are playing followers of the Goddess Iomedae. Fighters look versatile as hell. Cavaliers look interesting...Rod said mounts won't be wasted, but of course not always useful. Magus' look very interesting if you are into fighter/mage. I would lead you away from the bard currently. There bonus buffing will not stack with some of the stuff I am going to do. Barbarian and Ranger could obviously work as well.
If a Cavalier of Iomeade appealed to you...then me, you and Ken could form a little triumvirate of the faith. He and I are coming from a region known as Lastwall. Our whole purpose is to fight undead and make sure that the Lich King stays imprisoned in an area known as Gallowspire (which is in Ustalav, but on the border with Lastwall). Just some ideas.
So taking a look at the Cavalier I dropped some minor coin to support Pazio and piced up.. the Caveliers orders suppliment.. just to tease myself and see what other six orders there are and feats .. the order of the Griffon really stood out too me & Order of the Gauntlet..
I have played scores of fighters in my long long role playing times .. and only a few Caveliers so I am thinking more and more the idea of bringing in something 'differnt' but that can toe the lie and still dish out damage might just be this class..
Suggestions? Comments?? I have until July 10th to decide ...
Thanks one and all.
Rog 'Brute' GGG
I'm still going to recomend you play a force multiplyer class. With the rogue, and paladin in the group. In effect so far the group hase.
Divine caster, Arcane caster, Two melee characters. So you are not missing any thing. Bard inspire courage makes a big difrence by it's self. Add on top of that the bards ability to cover meny areas makes them a very good choice. And if your divine casters is not playing a battle caster strong secondary healer is a realy good idea. This will let them focus on spell casting. So there not wasting spell healing up the party. Summoner alows you to have a combat and spell casting both strong one of the few classes that can do this well. Combined with geting some spell at lower level like haste. Make this a good choice as he can function in two areas at the same time. Cavalier I rated last for two reasons. There a combat character out side of combat they do have some stuff they can do but it's limited. Two there ability to help the group with the team work feats is nice. It how ever lacks a genral ability boost making it work only some of the time.Listed in order of how much they will help the party.
Bard: buffing, combat, and healing.
Cleric, Druid, Oracle: combat, buffing, and healing.
Summoner: combat, buffing, arcane casting.
Cavalier: combat, buffing light.
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I am going to throw Ranger in the ring. They are a fantastic class, not exactly built to take the damage due to light/medium armour (but with d10 hp and high Dex they overcome that issue at early lvls anyway and later on AC becomes harder to keep up with anyway unless you are willing to lose damage for it...but you have the Pally for that anyway)
With a 25 point buy you are looking at something like:
Str: 18 (16+2 for Human)
Dex: 15 (at lvl 4 can boost to 16)
Con: 14
Wis: 13
Cha: 10
Or you can drop your Cha down to 7 to get 4 more points
Str: 18 (16+2 for Human)
Dex: 16
Con: 15
Wis: 12
Cha: 7
You have Pally and Cleric so you won't be party face so Cha is an easy loss.
At lvl 1 you will have Power Atk as your Feat and one other feat of your choice.
Assuming you wear a chain Shirt you have an AC of 17 at lvl 1. Attacking you do 2d6+6 damage with a To Hit of +5, or if you Power Atk 2d6 +9 at +4 to hit.
For your Ranger bonus Feats you will take Rapid Shot at 2 and Manyshot at 6.
Once you have a Composite longbow you are able to fire 1d8+4 twice a round at lvl 2, at lvl 6 you are able to shoot 2 arrows thanks to Many Shot, another arrow thanks to Rapid shot and a final arrow due to being lvl 6 and getting two attacks.
You can also get Deadly Aim which works similarly to Power Atk but with arrows.
So, when combat starts you make a pin cushion out of monsters, then when they close in you engage with your 2her.
The Ranger is a powerful and versatile guy, in addition to the combat powerhouse he is, you get a lot of skill points to play with - so helpful if you have lots of non combat stuff to do.
We have not even touched on Favoured Enemy! Your DM has told you Undead is going to feature, so that is an obvious choice - now the damage and to Hit is increased by another +2 (then +4 later) - starting combat firing 4 arrows against favoured enemy is disgusting.
Lets not forget you get a companion too, he can move fast around the battlefield to gain tactical advantage to flank monsters for you or the Rogue, against Favoured Enemies (yes, thats right, he shares those!) he can hit reliably and dish out decent damage.
Oh, and finally, he gets spells too!
An animal companion acts on your initiative, but has its own set of actions. They can even be simultaneous. So for instance, you could both move into flanking at the same time, then both take your attacks to take advantage of the flank.
If you want to focus on your companion, consider the Boon Companion feat, which would make your companion equal to that of a druid of your level.
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As Sunset said, the companion moves on your turn and can often set you up for a flanking attack. He takes none of your move economy.
My personal preference is wolf, but whichever you like will do, I believe there was a thread going on about whether cat or wolf was better, wolf seemed to be winning, but that is neither here nor there, its just what you prefer that matters.
Boon Companion is a great choice to improve your pet, a companion matching your lvl running around with your favoured enemy is scary.
The only thing I sugges is you keep away from the temptaion of turning the Ranger into an Archer (unless you build him as one in the first place) the idea of the switch hitter I mentioned above only shoots prior to engaging in combat, then you are supposed to kick butt with your weapon.
What this means is you do not need Precise Shot (removes -4 penalty to shooting in combat and requires Point Blank Shot Feat first)
After a few great rounds of pin cushioning monsters you can sometimes feel disappointed that you cannot shoot into combat effectively and then feel the urge to start spending feats to allow this - Don't do it! That is not what the Switch Hitter is about, the arrows just loosen up the monsters prior to the real messy work
An animal companion acts on your initiative, but has its own set of actions. They can even be simultaneous. So for instance, you could both move into flanking at the same time, then both take your attacks to take advantage of the flank.
If you want to focus on your companion, consider the Boon Companion feat, which would make your companion equal to that of a druid of your level.
Thank You Thank You Thank You and that makes a ton of sense...
new quick question for a ranger companion do you need charisma? I took a hit to my Charisma for other stats .... will this effect me and my companion?
Rog
This depends on your dm's style. Specifically around handle animal. I know some dms particularly hand waves the behavior of animal companions, and let you control them as you see fit. Others require the raw use of tricks and the handle animal skill. You wont need charisma specifically but if you have to direct your animal companion with handle animal, you will need a good score in this skill.
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I have never had issues regarding the Ranger pet and low Cha, but as Kolo says, it can depend on the GM. In the games I play, the companion tends to act as directed without any cecks for basic moving and attacking, if you are wanting it to do something special (say tumble or do a flip past an enemy) then a Handle Animal check would be needed, same if you were to try and get the companion to do something that would be unusual (for example a player is unconcious and you want the companion to attempt to drag them out of a dangerous area) these are more complex requests nad would require a check.
I would consider a GM rather harsh to expect a check everytime you had your companion move and attack - though again, there can be exceptions to this too, such as a monster with a particularly strong aura of fear may require you to make a check.
But as I say, I would expect Handle Animal Checks to be an exception rather than the norm.