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While I understand that attempting to initiate a grapple with an invisible opponent would have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment, what about subsequent checks to maintain the grapple?
Also, more generally, after a successful grapple check do you need a separate attack roll to inflict damage? Would that have the total concealment penalty?
Thanks!
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While I understand that attempting to initiate a grapple with an invisible opponent would have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment, what about subsequent checks to maintain the grapple?
"If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit. (Pathfinder Core Rulebook, p. 567)
Also, more generally, after a successful grapple check do you need a separate attack roll to inflict damage?
No. The damage action, if chosen, is part of the standard action required to maintain a grapple and requires no separate roll.
Would that have the total concealment penalty?
As above the invisible creature gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD vs. maintaining the grapple, but nothing else.
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While I understand that attempting to initiate a grapple with an invisible opponent would have a 50% miss chance due to total concealment, what about subsequent checks to maintain the grapple?"If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit. (Pathfinder Core Rulebook, p. 567)
Also, more generally, after a successful grapple check do you need a separate attack roll to inflict damage?No. The damage action, if chosen, is part of the standard action required to maintain a grapple and requires no separate roll.
Would that have the total concealment penalty?As above the invisible creature gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD vs. maintaining the grapple, but nothing else.
Great! Thanks for the reply!
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Yeah... I`m just not sure if RAI is that you REALLY lose all benefits of Invisibility, i.e. Invisible dude gets Grappled by Black Tentacles, now everybody can see and target him with spells and attacks with no miss chance, etc... or if RAI is that loss of Invisibility benefits applies vs. only the Grappler...?
Yeah... I`m just not sure if RAI is that you REALLY lose all benefits of Invisibility, i.e. Invisible dude gets Grappled by Black Tentacles, now everybody can see and target him with spells and attacks with no miss chance, etc... or if RAI is that loss of Invisibility benefits applies vs. only the Grappler...?
Hmmm. I just assumed that it was just versus the grappler, but you're right it does leave it a bit open-ended for some rules lawyering. I could see if you were trying to target the invisible creature you would have a certain advantage with someone wrapped around him, but he does have the grappled condition which already imposes a few penalties. I guess I would say that an invisible grappled creature's location is pinpointed. Meh.
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Yeah... I`m just not sure if RAI is that you REALLY lose all benefits of Invisibility, i.e. Invisible dude gets Grappled by Black Tentacles, now everybody can see and target him with spells and attacks with no miss chance, etc... or if RAI is that loss of Invisibility benefits applies vs. only the Grappler...?Hmmm. I just assumed that it was just versus the grappler, but you're right it does leave it a bit open-ended for some rules lawyering. I could see if you were trying to target the invisible creature you would have a certain advantage with someone wrapped around him, but he does have the grappled condition which already imposes a few penalties. I guess I would say that an invisible grappled creature's location is pinpointed. Meh.
Meh, indeed. His location is pinpointed, but he is still invisible. I think I would rule 20% miss chance for someone not directly involved in the grapple.