| Oinarisama |
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
I saw the creature called: Agathion, Vulpinal in bestiary 2 and wondered about its special qualities. Mainly the bardic knowledge +7 that it has.
The +7 is bothering me because I'm not sure what it means.
Bardic knowledge adds half its lvl to all knowledge checks and it can make any check untrained. I know that much.
But why the +7? Is that the bonus it gets from the bardic knowledge or what? It is the only thing that makes any kind of sense to me but only because he has 7 HD.
I would really appreciate the answer whatever it is.
| Bascaria |
Under Skills it has several knowledge skills listed:
Knowledge (Any one): +14
Knowledge (Arcana): +14
Knowledge (Planes): +14
Thus, it takes full ranks in 3 knowledge skills, 2 of which are predefined as arcana and planes. The third is up the GMs discretion when creating the encounter.
Outsiders get Knowledge Planes as a class skill (among others) plus 4 more of their choice. From this skill block, it looks like they took Perform (Any one) and Spellcraft, as well as putting full ranks in all the skills listed. (10 skills listed, they get 6+int/HD)
The Vulpinal also seems to have the Bardic Knowledge ability of a 7th level bard, which makes the math a bit wonky.
They should have a Knowledge(Planes) bonus of 7(ranks) +4(int) +3(class skill) +3(bardic knowledge)=17, but they only have 14, implying that the class skill bonus was not taken into account. EDIT: or the bardic knowledge bonus was not taken into account They also have 2 unclaimed class skills from the "pick 4" above. I would recommend putting those into Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge(Any one), making the bonus for all 3 knowledge skills +17. EDIT: Or, if bardic knowledge was not taken into account before, the book has already done this for you.
THEN, the bardic knowledge special quality is: +3 (from 7 "bard" levels) +4 (int) = +7, which is where that number comes from. They just forgot to take that +3 into account in the skill block above.
That's the best sense I can make of it personally. Hope that helps.
EDIT: penultimate paragraph rewritten, edits added to paragraph above that.
James Jacobs
Creative Director
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I saw the creature called: Agathion, Vulpinal in bestiary 2 and wondered about its special qualities. Mainly the bardic knowledge +7 that it has.
The +7 is bothering me because I'm not sure what it means.
Bardic knowledge adds half its lvl to all knowledge checks and it can make any check untrained. I know that much.But why the +7? Is that the bonus it gets from the bardic knowledge or what? It is the only thing that makes any kind of sense to me but only because he has 7 HD.
I would really appreciate the answer whatever it is.
I suspect this is a remnant; the original vulpinal appeared in "The Great Beyond," which was a 3.5 product. Bardic knowledge changed in the evolution from 3.5 to Pathifnder, so I suspect we just forgot to trim the +7 from the ability.
It should just have the bardic knowledge ability.
| Bascaria |
Oinarisama wrote:I saw the creature called: Agathion, Vulpinal in bestiary 2 and wondered about its special qualities. Mainly the bardic knowledge +7 that it has.
The +7 is bothering me because I'm not sure what it means.
Bardic knowledge adds half its lvl to all knowledge checks and it can make any check untrained. I know that much.But why the +7? Is that the bonus it gets from the bardic knowledge or what? It is the only thing that makes any kind of sense to me but only because he has 7 HD.
I would really appreciate the answer whatever it is.I suspect this is a remnant; the original vulpinal appeared in "The Great Beyond," which was a 3.5 product. Bardic knowledge changed in the evolution from 3.5 to Pathifnder, so I suspect we just forgot to trim the +7 from the ability.
It should just have the bardic knowledge ability.
James, glad to see you haven't left the rules forum for good, as some of us feared last week. I wonder if there is anything wrong with my math here regarding the skills?
Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.
Skills Acrobatics +10 (+18 jump), Bluff +13, Knowledge (any one) +14, Knowledge (arcana) +14, Knowledge (planes) +14, Perception +12, Perform (any one) +13, Spellcraft +14, Stealth +17, Use Magic Device +10; Racial Modifiers +8 Acrobatics when jumping
Str 12, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 19, Wis 15, Cha 16
6+int = 10 skills per level. Since 10 are listed, let's assume full ranks in all. So:
Acrobatics - 7(ranks) + 3(dex) = +10
Bluff - 7(ranks) + 3(cha) +3(class) = +13
Perception - 7(ranks) + 2(wis) +3(class) = +12
Perform - 7(ranks) + 3(cha) + 3(class 1 of 4 bonus) = +13
Spellcraft - 7(ranks) + 4(int) + 3(class 2 of 4 bonus) = +14
Stealth - 7(ranks) + 3(dex) + 3(class) + 4(size) = +17
UMD - 7(ranks) + 3(cha) = +10
So there are 2 more bonus class skills left, so I think we can assume those go into the arcane and bonus knowledge skill:
Knowledge (Planes/Arcana/Any One) - 7(ranks) + 4(int) + 3(class) + 3(bardic knowledge) = +17
But it is listed as +14
I didn't see this in any of the Beastiary 2 errata threads, and couldn't find an official errata.