| Gern Blacktusk |
Now, there's just something about the Savage Barbarian that appeals to me greatly, and not just the concept of delightfully well-built Half-Orcs running around in loincloths and little else.
It's a Barbarian build that, as far as I can see, benefits more from Dexterity and the Two-Weapon Fighting tree than it does from the Two-Handed Builds so common to the class. With a High dexterity, and depending upon the race, the ability to take the Ironhide Feat and then Improved Natural Armor or the Two Weapon Fighting/Two Weapon Defence feats, the Savage Barbarian can easily hold it's own against the other Barbarian builds.
Now, I would appreciate some other people's encounters with this class, as I tend to be hideously biased towards Barbarians (#>_>#).
Assuming a Dexterity capping out at 18, the Savage Barbarian could burn 4 feat-slots to gain TWF, TWD, Imp TWF and Double Slice to keep up the damage and then burn a fifth slot for Improved Shield Bash. Slap on a +4 Furious elemental burst Scimitar and a +5 Bashing Arrow-Catching Light Shield, plus the usual fun of Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor, and the Savage Barbarian is, from about level 10 on, easily comparable to other Barbarians in terms of damage, defence and mobility.
Hitpoints, however, as well as straight-up damage from the much-beloved Two Handed Tree, suffer, and at lower levels the lack of a high AC can be cripplingly restrictive, forcing a Savage Barbarian to actually be far, far more cautious in engaging the enemy.
Now we don't use Point-Buy system in our games (tends to end up causing cookie-cutter PCs, but that's just us) but a Point-Buy Savage Barbarian is Multiple Ability Dependant in a way that makes a Monk feel better about themselves. Strength for Damage, Dexterity for Armor, Constitution for Rage duration and Hitpoints, Intelligence can remain at 10 or even 8-9 and the Barbarian can still do his thing, Wisdom and Charisma tend to be a little situational, but having even moderate bonuses in both of these Abilities helps with both your outdoor skills and saving throws and being able to scare the crap out of nearly everything with your Intimidate Skill and Rage Powers.
Obvious items I can see a Barbarian needing are Bracers of Armor, Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, a Furious weapon of some description, Cloak of Resistance and a shield or off-hand weapon of some description.
Anything I've missed here? It's 12:30 in the morning, my cats are eating my toes, there's a howling storm outside my house and I have to get on a train at 5am today to go see my mother in hospital, so I'm fairly certain I've screwed up at least a few times here.
| jonnythm |
I agree with you that the savage barbarian may be equivalent in terms of damage dealing and defense if you do what you did for them at level 10, but only if the other barbarian didn't take any feats.
You burned 5 slots on getting that good TW fighting and shield bashing. Meanwhile the standard barb could get: Power attack, Cleave, Great cleave, Critical focus, and maybe weapon focus. Now they're doing more damage since they have a better strength score to hit, and have power attack. Not to mention they have damage reduction on top of that.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't natural armor bonuses not stack? That would mean you shouldn't get the amulet of natural armor since it would really be superfluous.
Anyway the flavor of the Savage "naked" barbarian seems good, but personally I wouldn't ever play as one unless I was okay with him being really sub par. Of course that's just from an optimization perspective.
I honestly wish that Paizo made the archetype better, or published a "recommended build and gear" type guide for it, because I can't really see any mathematical justification for the character.
Of course if you want you could just say that your standard barbarian is naked and the AC bonuses from wearing armor are really just "incredibly awesome skin that stacks with natural AC"
| Gern Blacktusk |
I just double-checked the Errata, Amulets of Natural Armor are an Enhancement Bonus, so they stack with 'natural' Natural Armor, such as those granted by feats or innate abilities of the wearer. If the wearer instead is under the effect of a spell or similar effect, only the greater ability takes effect.
I also agree the Savage Barbarian could have been built a little better. Naked Courage, for example, should increase the natural armor bonus every 3 levels, not 6, but the fear bonus should not alter, I believe.
Oh, and I also agree with the feats. But given that as-written the Class seems heavily slanted towards stacking Dexterity and Constitution, a Raging Barbarian with dual-wielding skills would be an awesomely fun character.
| jonnythm |
I just double-checked the Errata, Amulets of Natural Armor are an Enhancement Bonus, so they stack with 'natural' Natural Armor, such as those granted by feats or innate abilities of the wearer. If the wearer instead is under the effect of a spell or similar effect, only the greater ability takes effect.
That's interesting, that makes the archetype better than I though, but only a little.
Raging Barbarian with dual-wielding skills would be an awesomely fun character.
I like the idea of the raging barbarian going to town with two weapons, it definitely seems like barbarian logic ("If one weapon good, two weapons better!") but for two weapon fighting to really be effective you need extra damage for every hit (sneak attack and smite evil are popular) If I were doing a gestalt campaign I would go barbarian/rogue for sure, and do a little munchkining by getting the invulnerable rager archetype for maximum effect. (give up things you get for being a rogue for EPIC dr at not cost, seems like a deal for me)
Edit: spelling
| Matt Beatty |
I think that going TWF is a very large tax on the barbarians very few feats. One reason that the fighter can pull off TWF so easily is all their bonus feats. They can get all the needed feats and still have left overs to flush out a solid character. The barbarian does not have that. I am not saying don't give it a try, I am just saying its a tough road to go down for roughly the same damage as just carrying a big stick.
An alternative for this style would be to ditch the weapons and focus on some natural attacks. Grab the beast totem chain of awesomeness and then pick up a bite attack (half-orc / animal fury). This will give you three attacks at full-BAB. This path does not require any feat focus but still gives you that two weapon fighting feel.