The question is, when are you denied a reflex save?
In a thread I recently posted in I was informed that you always receive a reflex save, even if helpless or unconscious. I have always been under the impression that you do not receive reflex saves when you are denied your dexterity, such as when you are sleeping or balancing.
I can't find this rule in the core book so now I'm wondering if it's an outdated rule, or did I house-rule it so long ago that I began to think it was an actual rule. Anyway, thanks for any input!
You house ruled it -- you always get a save throw.
Now against (harmless) spells unconscious creatures are considered automatically willing -- which might be where you subconsciously formed your house rule.
I do not believe there is anything that prevents a character from being able to make a Fortitude, Reflex, or Will save vs any effect that would normally allow such a save to take place.
If the DM says something does not allow a save for whatever reason, then you do not get the save. Otherwise you get it. Being a hero and being lucky will sometimes allow you to avoid nasty things when it seams your doom is likely. :)
As I understand it, yes you do get a save technically while helpless or unconscious, but you automatically fail these saves as I understand it. You're assumed to be willing or something like that. It's very strange, and it's definitely a logic-break, but that is my understanding.
What I am certain of is that you are still entitled to a reflex save even when you lose your Dex bonus to AC or are balancing. So this may actually be part houserule and part core as far as your example goes.
As I understand it, yes you do get a save technically while helpless or unconscious, but you automatically fail these saves as I understand it. You're assumed to be willing or something like that. It's very strange, and it's definitely a logic-break, but that is my understanding.
What I am certain of is that you are still entitled to a reflex save even when you lose your Dex bonus to AC or are balancing. So this may actually be part houserule and part core as far as your example goes.
I see you fell for the same misunderstanding I spoke of earlier.
You do not automatically fail any save throw while unconscious.
The only spells that automatically affect you are those with a save throw line of (harmless) and those simply automatically consider you willing.
Now if you are helpless or what have you are likely to have quite the penalty to Dexterity which can affect your reflex save throw, but even that is no guarantee.
In short you always get a save throw, and you are not considered to automatically have failed it.
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Aiming a Spell
You must make choices about whom a spell is to affect or where an effect is to originate, depending on a spell's type. The next entry in a spell description defines the spell's target (or targets), its effect, or its area, as appropriate.
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Some spells restrict you to willing targets only. Declaring yourself as a willing target is something that can be done at any time (even if you're flat-footed or it isn't your turn). Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
Someone read this as "unconsciousness targets are always willing, for harmless spells or not", but if you read the text you are automatically willing only for harmless spells.
It is still possible to do some interesting shenanigans like using polymorph on a sleeping target even if it is an enemy (and even there interpretations can vary), but the target always get a ST against hostile effects.
For completeness:
Helpless: A helpless character is paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping, unconscious, or otherwise completely at an opponent's mercy. A helpless target is treated as having a Dexterity of 0 (–5 modifier). Melee attacks against a helpless target get a +4 bonus (equivalent to attacking a prone target). Ranged attacks get no special bonus against helpless targets. Rogues can sneak attack helpless targets.