Hi all,
I'm looking for advice on a shapeshifter druid kind of guy.
So far, I'm a little disappointed with what I was able to do; I'm getting very low ac and barely improved combat capabilities with the new rules.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong.
Can someone please suggest a more o less useful built (as in he is able to pull his own weight rather that hold the party back)?
We use standard fantasy points and, while I would prefer a built centered around levels 5-8, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thank you
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With pathfinder you have to focus on combat or spell casting. The codzilla is no longer there where you can be good at both. Probly somthing to do with ability scores more then class.
15 point standard fantasy
combat druid human (Animal Shaman is not a bad way to go for this type of build.)
Str 15+2=17
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 8
Feats:
Human: Improved Initiative
1: Fleet
3: Power Attack
5: Natural Spell
7: Aspect of the Beast: Wild Instinct
9: Improved Over Run
11: Improved Critical: Natural
13: Charge Through
15: Fleet
With pathfinder you have to focus on combat or spell casting. The codzilla is no longer there where you can be good at both. Probly somthing to do with ability scores more then class.
See I'm cool with having to focus on one of 'em and not being able to excel at both.
The problem to me is that apparently, focusing on wild shape combat is a really poor choice.
In the example built you gave, seems like the AC would suffer a lot.
beast shape 1/medium (at 6th level)
ac 10+2 natural+3 barkskin+1 ring of protection = 16
beast shape 2/ large animal (at 8th)
ac 10-1dex -1 size +4 armor +3 barkskin +2 ring of protectcion = 17
beast shape 3/huge animal (at 10th)
ac 10-2 dex-2 size +6 natural +4 barkskin+3 ring of protection= 19
Unless I'm missing something this is pretty bad (and notice I am assuming that the character in question will be able to posses a ring of protection of appropriate power in all the examples, which probably won't be the case). Said druid would probably be better off buying armor and fighting in his own form.
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AC from levels 1 to 8 mater. AC past level 8 means jack. The amount of AC need to be effective is high 20s to low 30s. In order to get to that level requires to much of a investment. Investing in offence over protection dose more in lowing the damage you recive. Then you have to rember the elemental forms can be used to do meny effects normal fighters can not do.
Best Shape I Level 4
Medium animal Str 18+2=20
Best Shape II Level 6
Large animal Str 18+4=22
Elemental Body I
Best Shape III Level 8
Huge animal Str 19+6=25
Medium magical beast 19+4=23
Elemental Body II
elemental body III Level 10
And for all the good it will do you.
Wild: The wearer of a suit of armor or a shield with this ability preserves his armor bonus (and any enhancement bonus) while in a wild shape. Price +3 bonus.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/advice/treantmonksGuideToDruidsOptimization&page=1&source=search #0
Treantmonks Guide to Druids. It's a bit outdated, as it only incorporates the core book, but the thoughts and ideas are still relevant and informative. Reading through it helped me build my druid to be quite a bamf.
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/advice/treantmonksGuideToDruidsOptimization&page=1&source=search #0
Treantmonks Guide to Druids. It's a bit outdated, as it only incorporates the core book, but the thoughts and ideas are still relevant and informative. Reading through it helped me build my druid to be quite a bamf.
For some reason I can't open that link.
Are you sure its working?@calgnar
I think I get your point, but what I was trying to say is that, wild shape hardly seems helpful combat wise. A melee oriented druid that invests in armor and combat spells seems to be as effective or more effective that the one using wild shape.
Seems like the only useful form to adopt is a small flying bird, so you can bomb enemies with spells. Assuming the shape of a dire bear (exemple) seems to me a waste of action, if you can just charge in and perform just as well.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab Try that one instead, and follow the druid links.
To the contrary, a druid that focuses on wild shaping and picks the right forms is going to do damn good in melee combat. And remember, you get an animal companion as part of the package deal of being a druid. He's your own personal flanker, and does some pretty good damage on his own. And remember that you can give your companion teamwork feats, to further increase your synergy. When you're both Dire Tigers, charging into flanking with a full attack from pounce, teamwork bonuses to hit, precision damage, and rocking things like flaming claws, then you'll see some serious damage output. And a druid has the ultimate in combat flexibility. You can eventually go up to Huge animals (like an Allosaurus), as well as elementals. Even just the core Bestiary will net you a form for every situation. And with Natural Spell, you'll be able to buff yourself and your companion while shaped.
At 8th Level you can be a Dire Tiger or a Dire Bear with a great cat (dire tiger) companion.
Does your AC suck? Probably as Wild Armor is very expensive.
Do you do a lot of damage? You bet! With a 20 Point buy you should rival the Barbarian in damage output and mobility (and AC) PLUS being able to cast all sorts of nifty spells if the need arises.
Fighting in melee without beastshape will up your AC by a about 4 and lower your damage output considerably without multiple attacks/pounce/rake and str bonus.
So, in my opinion, there is no substitution if you want to be a melee druid.
+1 Wild Dragonhide full plate would run 19,300g, a little over half the WBL of a level 8 character. Not totally unobtainable, and it's not like you need to buy weapons. A damn good investment, as it would net you a +10 ac while wild shaped, giving you the sort of AC the fighter wishes he had, while giving you damage output to rival the barbarian, while using awesome spells that the cleric/wizard wishes they had. Druids are badasses.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab Try that one instead, and follow the druid links.
This is great reading thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I'll read and test in game, but both of you have good points.
thanks;
You can take a feat for proficiency, and dragonhide or ironwood fullplate gets around their inability to use metal armor. Hide armor isn't worth shelling out the cash for Wild for, since it basically nets you almost the same bonus as just buying a wand of mage armor and having your friendly party arcane hit you with it.
At level 8, a druid with a base 14 Dexterity, shaped into a large creature, could pull off a 30 AC. 10 base + 10 armor + 1 dex + 1 Dodge feat (free bonus for Lion Shaman), +4 natural armor, +3 Barkskin, +1 Ring of Protection +1. That's not counting anything you get from party buffs. Once you hit higher levels, Barkskin scales higher, and buying a Wild Heavy Wooden Shield becomes affordable.
At level 8, a druid with a base 14 Dexterity, shaped into a large creature, could pull off a 30 AC. 10 base + 10 armor + 1 dex + 1 Dodge feat (free bonus for Lion Shaman), +4 natural armor, +3 Barkskin, +1 Ring of Protection +1. That's not counting anything you get from party buffs. Once you hit higher levels, Barkskin scales higher, and buying a Wild Heavy Wooden Shield becomes affordable.
Question;
Do shields (and shield bonuses) continue to work while a druid was wild shaped or not?
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+1 Wild Dragonhide Breastplate :)
Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but
are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may
wear only padded, leather, or hide armor.
Dragonhide armor isn't metal armor anymore, it is in fact, "leather" at that point. This is how druids can get around the restrictions of their armor requirements. While conceptually difficult, dragonhide full-plate is possible and is legitimate for a druid to wear (though he/she would need the heavy armor proficiency to wear it without penalty).
If you're playing a melee druid you need to rely on things like wild armor, barkskin, and feats for that extra AC boost. Even with those things you need to envision yourself more as a barbarian with extra tricks up your sleeve than a heavily armored fighter. A cat form druid going in for a pounce attack is a scary sight to behold, and you can dish out tremendous amounts of damage, just expect that you're going to be more mobile than the typical fighter.
as a wildshaping druid unless you can get your hands on wild armor, dont bother with it. Your focus is on your animal forms, so seeks out (or create yourself) constant bonus items like rings of protection or amulets of natural armor. Or you can cast barkskin on yourself every combat. Remember that this stacks with the NA bonus that comes from wild shapping since it is listed as an enhancement bonus to natural armor, and the wild shape bonus is not.
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+1 Wild Dragonhide Breastplate :)
Druids are proficient with light and medium armor but
are prohibited from wearing metal armor; thus, they may
wear only padded, leather, or hide armor.Dragonhide armor isn't metal armor anymore, it is in fact, "leather" at that point. This is how druids can get around the restrictions of their armor requirements. While conceptually difficult, dragonhide full-plate is possible and is legitimate for a druid to wear (though he/she would need the heavy armor proficiency to wear it without penalty).
If you're playing a melee druid you need to rely on things like wild armor, barkskin, and feats for that extra AC boost. Even with those things you need to envision yourself more as a barbarian with extra tricks up your sleeve than a heavily armored fighter. A cat form druid going in for a pounce attack is a scary sight to behold, and you can dish out tremendous amounts of damage, just expect that you're going to be more mobile than the typical fighter.
Fullplate is heavy armor: Spend a feat on heavy armor proficient.
Breastplate is medium armor: Don't spend a feat on heavy armor proficient.|
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as a wildshaping druid unless you can get your hands on wild armor, dont bother with it. Your focus is on your animal forms, so seeks out (or create yourself) constant bonus items like rings of protection or amulets of natural armor. Or you can cast barkskin on yourself every combat. Remember that this stacks with the NA bonus that comes from wild shapping since it is listed as an enhancement bonus to natural armor, and the wild shape bonus is not.
I also forgot, if you're playing with the Seeker of Secrets rulebook from Paizo, slotting a +1 AC ioun stone into a wayfinder provides a +2 CMB and CMD bonus, which is awesome for this kind of character.
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If you have Ultimate Magic you can make a really nasty grappling druid with the Saurian Shaman archetype.
With this archetype at level 6 you can transform into a Huge Allosaurus and really wreak havoc with you grab attack. Once you get greater grapple and powerful shape you will be a force to be reckoned with.