Should I dip?

[Jiggy]

Consider the following character, whom I recently created for Society play:

Spoiler:

Asharel, the Lucky Wanderer
Male Elf
Cleric 1 (Domains: Luck and Travel)
Alignment: CN
Faction: Taldor
STR 12
DEX 18
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 10
Feat: Weapon Finesse
Traits: Resilient, Expert Duelist
Trained Skills: Knowledge (Religion), Profession (Gambler)
Weapon of choice: Masterwork rapier (proficient due to being an Elf)
Defensive gear: MW Chain Shirt, MW Buckler

Basic idea of the character: Asharel is a happy-go-lucky (literally) fellow, and a wandering professional gambler. He likes fun and has a lot of class.

So I was originally planning on staying mono-cleric, but I started wondering if it could be fun to play up his personality by taking one or more levels of Rogue and/or Duelist.

Rogue:
If I dip one level, I get a shot in the arm on my Reflex saves, take a slight hit to my BAB, gain 1d6 Sneak Attack, and the irrelevant-to-this-character Trapfinding ability. A second level gets me a juicy Talent and Evasion. A third level gets me a second d6 for SA. And of course the more dips I make, the more my spellcasting/channeling progression is disrupted.

Duelist:
The main boon here is the fantastic flavor. Even so, the cons are the feat and BAB requirements, but if I dip one level I can get a little extra damage, and a second level will let me parry. I would have to ditch my buckler (though that would be offset by the required Dodge feat and the possibility of bumping my INT for Canny Defense), but I'd also get better BAB and Reflex.

Or I could stay mono-cleric and use feats (any suggestions?) to further flesh out the concept.

Any thoughts?

[calagnar]

For the type of character you want.
Asharel, the Lucky Wanderer
Male Elf
Bard 1 Is a better fit for the concept.

[loaba]

I second the Bard suggestion. It's got everything you want; some magic-ability, good intro to Duelist (I think.) You don't even have to focus on music, really. Asharel might just have a great voice and a talent for dramatic readings. Maybe give him a tambourine or a little drum as a accent piece.

Dude, you need to stop with the cool concept right now. You're making me think that an Elven Bard could be cool.

[Chris Ballard]

My one question is, how can you afford anything masterwork with only 150 gp?

[Madclaw]

Chris Ballard wrote:

My one question is, how can you afford anything masterwork with only 150 gp?

Heirloom Weapon gets you a free masterwork weapon sans the base cost of the weapon. So really that's free.

[Jiggy]

Chris Ballard wrote:

My one question is, how can you afford anything masterwork with only 150 gp?

Just because he's level 1 doesn't mean he hasn't been played yet. ;) He's actually one session shy of level 2 (and his last session he played up to sub-tier 3-4 due to a large table).

A bard would be another option for a similar concept, yes. But a bard wouldn't really have the luck theme going on, especially with the lack of the Luck Domain. (Aside: the look on my GM's face when he forgot I'd cast True Strike last round and I asked if my level 1 character's 37 would hit the target's AC was PRICELESS!) A bard is in some sense a de facto wanderer, sure, but I think it's still less well-represented without the Travel Domain. So between the pair of Domains, I really think he does better as a cleric. I even decided that, flavorfully, the "pebbles" he uses for Magic Stone are his dice. ;)

So with that clarification, any further ideas?

[loaba]

I realize the attractiveness of multi-classing, but I would think that any time you have Caster Levels, you don't want to gimp yourself.

[Jiggy]

loaba wrote:

I realize the attractiveness of multi-classing, but I would think that any time you have Caster Levels, you don't want to gimp yourself.

Yeah, that's my main hesitation. I was just wondering if anyone with more experience could help me weigh the pros and cons, with a little less theory and a little more direct experience than what I've got on my own.

[Morgen]

Well if your happy with what you've got from Cleric already and don't see yourself wanting to go forward to get more spell casting and energy channeling, then working towards duelist isn't a horrible thing.

I might recommend a level or two of Fighter or something similar into the mix to help pick up your BAB and get you the extra feat slots, then slip into Rogue and Duelist if that's how you want your character to mechanically work.

You'd be less of a cleric that multiclassed and instead be a duelist/rogue who had a level of cleric.

[loaba]

Jiggy wrote:

I was just wondering if anyone with more experience could help me weigh the pros and cons, with a little less theory and a little more direct experience than what I've got on my own.

Multi-Classing Pros

Better Saves
New Abilities
Access to different Class Skills

Multi-Classing Cons

Watered-down Class Features (like BAB or Caster Levels or Sneak Attack etc.)

Morgen wrote:

Well if your happy with what you've got from Cleric already and don't see yourself wanting to go forward to get more spell casting and energy channeling, then working towards duelist isn't a horrible thing.

I might recommend a level or two of Fighter or something similar into the mix to help pick up your BAB and get you the extra feat slots, then slip into Rogue and Duelist if that's how you want your character to mechanically work.

You'd be less of a cleric that multiclassed and instead be a duelist/rogue who had a level of cleric.

That's four different classes, which does give me pause. It just seems like you're really stretching the character when you do that. I think you should work up two different Level Progression charts. One should be a Single Class Cleric working towards Duelist and the other should be a Multi-class Cleric/Rogue working towards Duelist.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

I just read your concept, and there's nothing there that says spread the faith, or serve his gods, or convert other people to the true path, or anything.

So my question is, why are you a cleric at all? Happy-go-lucky wanderer sounds like rogue or bard to me.

[Jiggy]

rkraus2 wrote:

I just read your concept, and there's nothing there that says spread the faith, or serve his gods, or convert other people to the true path, or anything.

So my question is, why are you a cleric at all? Happy-go-lucky wanderer sounds like rogue or bard to me.

Desna is his travelin' buddy. ;) Seriously though, I presumed that "spread the faith, serve his god(dess)" was sort of assumed for a cleric, so I only summarized that which was unique to Asharel. I didn't mean to imply that the more common features of cleric-ness were absent. Sorry for the confusion.

loaba wrote:

I think you should work up two different Level Progression charts. One should be a Single Class Cleric working towards Duelist and the other should be a Multi-class Cleric/Rogue working towards Duelist.

To be clear, I was never meaning to go into both Rogue AND Duelist. Each seemed like a potential way of further developing the character, but it would be one or the other. To sum up, I was basically considering three options:

• Mono-cleric
• Cleric with a dip into Rogue
• Cleric with a dip into Duelist
Those options sort of fill a spectrum, with "easy to do, but not much unique flavor" on the cleric end, "hard to do, but dripping with flavor" on the duelist end, and the rogue somewhere in between. Does that make my quandary a bit clearer?

[loaba]

rkraus2 wrote:

I just read your concept, and there's nothing there that says spread the faith, or serve his gods, or convert other people to the true path, or anything.

So my question is, why are you a cleric at all? Happy-go-lucky wanderer sounds like rogue or bard to me.

Are you saying that a Desnian Cleric can't exist?

While I think a Bard would have been a great choice for this concept, it's not the only choice. An Elven Cleric of Desnus isn't one to watch the clock or think he's in any particular hurry. This character is foot-loose and fancy free and he's seeing the world.

[loaba]

Jiggy wrote:

To be clear, I was never meaning to go into both Rogue AND Duelist. Each seemed like a potential way of further developing the character, but it would be one or the other. To sum up, I was basically considering three options:

• Mono-cleric
• Cleric with a dip into Rogue
• Cleric with a dip into Duelist
Those options sort of fill a spectrum, with "easy to do, but not much unique flavor" on the cleric end, "hard to do, but dripping with flavor" on the duelist end, and the rogue somewhere in between. Does that make my quandary a bit clearer?

I think you'll get the most mileage out of Mono-Cleric. And I really like your concept.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

I would then take a level of rogue, and use the swashbuckler archetype. Use a rapier, make acrobatics checks, get some sleight of hand in, add all of the things that say "fun" to you.

Then, PLAY the guy like he's a duellist. Challenge people to duels, shout catch-phrases, etc.

I would say end up Rogue 3/Cleric 9, or Rogue 9/Cleric 3. No reason to decide just yet, you've got a lot of society games ahead of you.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

loaba wrote:

Are you saying that a Desnian Cleric can't exist?
/QUOTE]

Not at all. I'm saying that if you open the spoiler and read the 'basic idea of the character', that it doesn't say a single word about worshipping Desna, or being a cleric, or anything.

The OP clarified his meaning, so it's no problem.

[Jiggy]

loaba wrote:

I think you'll get the most mileage out of Mono-Cleric.

Any suggestions for feats to develop the character further? I honestly have no idea what feats are good for a cleric in general, let alone for this one in particular. All I've thought of so far is taking five instances of Fleet and having a base land speed of 65 feet at level 11. But that seems a little silly. ;)

loaba wrote:

And I really like your concept.

Thanks!

[Jiggy]

rkraus2 wrote:

I would then take a level of rogue, and use the swashbuckler archetype. Use a rapier, make acrobatics checks, get some sleight of hand in, add all of the things that say "fun" to you.

I had completely forgotten about archetypes, so I excitedly went and read the Swashbuckler (and the others) when I read your post. Then I discovered that - since I'm already proficient in my weapon of choice - the archetype doesn't really grant me anything until the third rogue level (aside from the basic benefits of the rogue class). *sigh*

Even so, you're right - I have a lot of sessions to get a feel for Asharel before it's time to decide; six, to be precise. :P

[Jiggy]

Since I already have a description of this character in the OP, I decided to necro rather than start a new thread:

What are some good feats for a finesse cleric? Or for clerics in general? Basically, I haven't been on the scene long enough to know what the usual choices are. Any feats that either look good for this character or are solid choices for elves and/or clerics in general would be appreciated. Thanks!