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Well, I'm finally back in Pennsylvania after an amazing experience at Paizocon. Having the chance to rub elbows with the folks who make this great game I enjoy and meeting other industry luminaries was truly unforgettable. I promised myself I'd wait until I got home, though, to bring up the one thing I disliked: the venue.
Everybody's going to have differing opinions on this, which is great. It's entirely possible that I was in the minority on this, and in fact I hope that is the case, but I wanted to put some thoughts out there and see what others thought.
The Coast is, in my opinion, not a suitable venue for the event. Here are the specific things I thought were less-than-seaworthy:
- The room where the seminars were held was really small. I thought I read somewhere that it would seat 100 people, which is obviously untrue. Maybe smushed together, or sitting nearly on top of one another (as we were), but not with any degree of comfort involved.
- The hallway. That thing is, what, 5 feet wide? With people lined up on either side to get into games/seminars/etc., it was more like two and a half feet. As we all know, that's a squeeze. Combined with the Medium load I was carrying due to my backpack, I was frequently coming down with claustrophobia, which would be fine, except I'm not claustrophobic.
- The banquet room. Look, this was a total fail on the part of the hotel. When I have to wonder where I even begin, there's serious problems. First, the sound. Seriously, one entire half of the room gets no sound at all? Seriously? Also, the room just isn't big enough. It was like sardines in that place - there was a fair amount of room between the tables, but the number of people at each table meant that we were eating on top of one another, with no room for elbows. Also, too many seats off to the left (if you're standing and presenting, to the right if you're looking at the "stage") had no view of the projected images at all - and additionally, these same people couldn't hear because they were on the side with no working speakers. So, can't see, can't hear... The food was - I don't want to say bad, but when I got there, there wasn't really anything left of it. It wasn't getting refilled fast enough for whatever reason, and again, that goes to the hotel. It'd be nice to have the meat at the beginning, because having room for it on your plate is crucial... see, now I just sound like I'm b~%*@ing. The bottom line of the banquet is that I had fun because of the people I was sitting with and the trivia contest (great job, Mark!) and the presentations, and in spite of the room. It's a testament to the people at the convention that I had as much fun as I did.
- The restrooms are like dungeons - I kept expecting to encounter a dire rat.
On a positive note, I found the food at the bar to be really good. The fish and chips plate, particularly, will be sorely missed. They could staff a few more people during peak hours, though.
In closing, let me just reiterate that the con itself is amazing, and shouldn't be missed by anyone. For any reason. Whatsoever. But, I really do think that Paizo can do better with the venue, and as a con-goer I think it's my duty to at least mention it.
Chief Technical Officer
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We actually began looking for a larger place to host PaizoCon *last* year, but we knew that this year, we wouldn't quite be big enough to step up to a larger venue. At this point, though, I'd say that odds are pretty good that PaizoCon 2012 will be in a larger space.
The hallway. That thing is, what, 5 feet wide? With people lined up on either side to get into games/seminars/etc., it was more like two and a half feet.
I believe the 5-foot hallway at the Coast was designed specifically to give us gamers an object lesson about dungeon mapping.
This was my inaugural PaizoCon, and I had an absolute blast, despite some of the same issues Jeremiziah brings up about the Coast (in particular regarding the banquet -- we were on the side with no sound, couldn't see the presentation without moving, and the food was just plain GONE by the time we got to the line), but my experience with events tells me they're looking at a significant price increase when you move up to the next level -- there's not much of a break for that nebulous space where PaizoCon is right now, between, say, about 400 and 1500.
I would be entirely open to paying more to get in, although I may be in the minority. When the schwag bag alone pays for the con (or nearly so), I mean...
Oh, yes -- that's not to say I wouldn't be willing to pay more, particularly in light of the freebies with which we were showered. :-D
It's more a matter of how much more money the venue charges, and how that cost gets passed along. I've seen in the past that another step up is a steep one.
Also, on a more personal basis, I'd be worried about losing some of the personal touches Paizo provides as the con grows. I'm sure those who have attended in the past share many of those concerns as well -- it's really one of the best selling points of PaizoCon, that feeling of fellowship you get when attending...hopefully those of us who've come along since its inception haven't spoiled that for anyone else.
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Also, on a more personal basis, I'd be worried about losing some of the personal touches Paizo provides as the con grows. I'm sure those who have attended in the past share many of those concerns as well -- it's really one of the best selling points of PaizoCon, that feeling of fellowship you get when attending...hopefully those of us who've come along since its inception haven't spoiled that for anyone else.
First of all, let me say THANK YOU for coming to PaizoCon.
As sort-of the person who started PaizoCon, I want to assure you that the extra people we've picked up over these last 3 years have NOT spoiled anything...this was the goal, to get a bigger following. That's not something I could easily do, but Paizo CAN...and did. PaizoCon has exceeded everything we had hoped for at that 1st year.
However, I share your concerns about getting too big. The point of the 1st PaizoCon was to provide a Con experience where Paizo staff and fans could easily interact, and where EVERYONE had fun. As PaizoCon gets bigger, the chance at having that one-on-one face time with the Paizo staff and guests gets smaller. And, as can be seen with the lottery, the more people, the less chance you are going to get that PRIME spot at <insert name here>'s table.
And speaking of that, there's the other consequence: Each year I've seen more people attending than the previous year, and THIS year, I started to hear a lot more complaints. Not HUGE complaints, but enough for me to notice that we had significantly more people in attendance, and quite a few of them were expecting something more magical than what they got. I'm not sure WHAT they expected, because, to me, every single year Paizo does this, PaizoCon gets BETTER.
Can a bigger venue help? Certainly. But should PaizoCon grow big enough to fill that bigger space? Ummmm....not sure.
Now, this is just my personal opinion, which is in no way, shape, or form reflective of Paizo's position on this, but it is my hope that PaizoCon stays about this size...around 500 max. Anything bigger would seem to me to be less intimate, and would essentially change the nature of the Con itself.
My 2 cp.....
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<exchanges Timitius's 2cp for 2gp, which is what they're really worth>
Well said, sir. For my part, the con was more magical than Disney, and if anyone was unhappy with the con as a whole, I can't imagine why. I do think, however, that the venue really needs to be - not bigger, necessarily, to handle more people, but - more spacious. If that makes sense. And the hotel staff needs to really deliver, which they didn't in this case.
I did forget to mention one thing, though - at the banquet, the line to get in was converging from two directions - from downstairs in the bar and from the hallway leading to the rooms. For some reason that I still can't figure out, the people in the line coming up from the bar were taken in last, after the whole other line (which was long) was served. It's totally true that I have sour grapes about this because I was in the line coming from the bar, I'll admit that. But I will ask, if there are two lines converging on one point, and both can't be served simultaneously, shouldn't the procedure be to serve the front of line A, then the front of line B, then the next portion of line A, etc.? It was exceedingly frustrating to be 10 feet from the door and have to watch a line of people, some of whom arrived much later than I, go in first. And again, by the time I got to the food, it was pretty much just not there, and the bad seat, and the no audio... it just snowballed.
I doubt that this exact problem will arise in future cons, but if it does, I beg of you to handle it differently. Either by establishing one line and one line only, or by alternating, or something.
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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I did forget to mention one thing, though - at the banquet, the line to get in was converging from two directions - from downstairs in the bar and from the hallway leading to the rooms. For some reason that I still can't figure out, the people in the line coming up from the bar were taken in last, after the whole other line (which was long) was served. It's totally true that I have sour grapes about this because I was in the line coming from the bar, I'll admit that. But I will ask, if there are two lines converging on one point, and both can't be served simultaneously, shouldn't the procedure be to serve the front of line A, then the front of line B, then the next portion of line A, etc.? It was exceedingly frustrating to be 10 feet from the door and have to watch a line of people, some of whom arrived much later than I, go in first. And again, by the time I got to the food, it was pretty much just not there, and the bad seat, and the no audio... it just snowballed.I doubt that this exact problem will arise in future cons, but if it does, I beg of you to handle it differently. Either by establishing one line and one line only, or by alternating, or something.
Sorry to hear that you were in that misunderstanding.
The problem was that the line you hopped in behind was the Paizo staff and guests waiting to bypass the regular line at get in first. Unfortunately, no one told all of you people behind them that you weren't in the real line. And, unfortunately, it didn't work like a merge lane, either, because then everyone in the line would have been unhappy (but it wasn't like you were trying to cut). But, yes, it was a difficult circumstance, for sure...one I am sure won't be repeated.
:(
At first, I honestly thought it was the end of the line snaking all the way around down the hall and back up the stairs! I was stunned...until someone explained to me what was happening.
Wait, there actually was a special shortcut line? I thought the people who told me that were just joking.
Ahaaa. Oh well. I was in the regular line and it went pretty fast, and it was nice to get to talk to people anyway, since I didn't get to spend that much time at the con doing actual con things (fie upon you, work! FIE!!).
Hmm. I got there early and was in the regular line, so I got plenty of food and it was all nice. My only complaint was that the prime rib was all cooked well done.
With lines, with so many people showing up for the meet-and-eat the night before, it would have been good to have an early registration/badge pick-up open the night before as well. That would have cut down the line at the beginning of the con, especially for those running games that started as the con started. It worked out okay anyway, but was still a little frantic.
So far as venues went, I've been to many conventions over the years and I have to say the food and drinks in the bar were unexpectedly excellent, and the hotel was easy walking distance to a number of other restaurants which were also quite good.
While I'd like a larger venue, I have to say the Coast was extremely impressive for what they were able to do.
... and the hotel was easy walking distance to a number of other restaurants which were also quite good.
I ate all my meals in the hotel restaurant, which got a little old after a while.
Out of curisoity for next year, what restaurants were within walking distance from the hotel?
Thanks!
The Crab Pot was walking distance. Did that the first night for the meet-'n-eat.
Next day, went out with an old friend. There was a Denny's next door, which I wanted to skip, so we walked a bit further, and halfway to the Crab Pot was an excellent and quiet Chinese restaurant. Can't remember the name but it was next door to what looked like a sports bar called The Pump Room, and I heard some other con goers talk about going there.
Actually, once the new venue is known--the Coast or somewhere else--it would be good to put together a thread with a quick restaurant guide to the places in walking distance.
... and the hotel was easy walking distance to a number of other restaurants which were also quite good.
I ate all my meals in the hotel restaurant, which got a little old after a while.
Out of curisoity for next year, what restaurants were within walking distance from the hotel?
It's a 10-15 minute walk to downtown Bellevue, where there are a lot of restaurants, many of which are attached to the Bellevue Square Mall so they're easy to find. And that's just if you go west. :)
This was my first PaizoCon and I had a blast. I can't say I'm for chaning venues, for a a fews reasons.
First I really want to stay at the hotel next year. If it is held somewhere else I don't know room prices would be feasible.
Second I liked the size of the con. I got to talk to a lot of people I have seen on these messageboards and they were easy to find or just "bump" into as the weekend went. If it got too much bigger I'm not sure it would happen this way. I do realize this part may not be in Paizo's best interest.
Third The Con price itself. I know the price is pretty inexpensive as far as a con goes, but when everything is double (both me and my boyfriend are gamers) s0 it does add up.
Anyway my 2cp,
aka Angela Livermore
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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No real complaints here. It was my first Con for gaming and I was blown away. I had an excellent experience. The bed was really comfy and was one of the best I have slept on while I was away from home. The food at the banquet was some of the best I have had at a hotel banquet (and I live in Monterey and have had the pleasure of eating at hotels in Pebble Beach, Carmel, and Monterey. Those are not inexpensive hotels!) I loved the intimate feel of PaizoCon and how I could walk up to anyone and start a conversation. It also cost less then a couple business conventions I have been to, so I didn't have to dip into rent money to pay for it all.
The audio problems didn't bother me so much, but mostly because I have been on the hotels side of those problems in the past and I have seen far worse go wrong. I really felt for two guys running back and forth doing their best to fix the issue.
I did have one lottery game on Sunday morning that no one show up to, but I really don't know what could have been done to fix that. Saturday night is a pretty late night for people and so Sunday morning is a pretty bad time to have a game, especially if you are like me and are an unknown GM. There were plenty of other games happening but I got the impression those GMs were well known.
As for a larger venue hurting that great intimate feel, I think the convention still has a ways to grow before it goes away. I went to Stumptown Comic Fest a few year back and I was able to meet and talk to many, many of the artists and writers there. The convention floor was huge, and had a couple hundred tables at least. There were many panels in those few days. Even though it was larger then PaizoCon, I was able to have most of the tables sign a travel journal I brought. I also met Scott McCloud and Mike Richardson, and though I was not able to have the same level of conversation I had with some of the Paizo staff, I was still able to ask a question or two.
I would ask that if you do have a larger venue, be sure to increase the merchant area. I was a little disappointed in its small size. I still bought stuff, but I was hoping to find more cool or unusual stuff that I couldn't already buy at my local game store. I am pretty partial to T-shirts, so please find a way to have lots of t-shirt variety. Something more then just PFS shirts.
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I think there is a secret to the con. The first year was fun, and I got to hear a lot of cool things and I had a blast but as an introvert, it was very difficult for me to branch out. I really didn't KNOW anybody. Crys and I did get to sit down with Lisa that year for about 30 minutes and listen to her stories which was a delight.
My Second year was especially good. I knew more people from last time, I helped out a little more, I got access to some really cool people including Dave Gross, whom at the time, I didn't know was important when I started engaging him in conversations. But I took more chances that year and put myself out there to meet more people and it worked out for me. Also, I don't think the banquet food was so poorly managed that year and we had quite a lot of fun in the banquet.
This year when I went, I took the attitude from the previous year with me. It wasn't AS magical(I'm good friends with a few paizo people these days so I see a lot of these guys every other week on average), but it was better in other ways. I felt I really got to meet a lot of fun people, played in some great games by being on the boards as much as winning anything in the lottery, and I just had a blast! It came down to the people, mostly. That said, service noticeably worse this year than last even after the promise of trying to make it better. Unpleasant how that worked out.
But my suggestion, take a chance, talk to others whether they are Paizo or not. Don't bother anyone, but if you can engage a new friend in conversation then it will make PaizoCon more than just a gaming con. I've literally made friends there I will keep for a long time even from a distance.
The idea of changing venues saddens me, both because of the growth implied and because I've been very comfortable there. My first year in '09 I was about as far away from the Con as you could get, and still could run to my room, grab something I forgot, and be back in less than two minutes.
I've been worrying about PaizoCon getting too big since my first. It really is a special thing, because of all the people there - attendees and hosts. While I dream of PaizoCon staying small, private, and even exclusive, I can't imagine Paizo as the kind of company that shuts people out.
I feel as long as people keep coming back, and giving back, to PaizoCon, the specialness will last. It's up to us to keep it special, so if you've been and you're going back next year, make sure to volunteer for something.
PaizoCon is about the people. It will change, will grow, but the people can keep it special.
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This was my first time there, and I have to say I hated the location.
I think it would be possible to move to a better location without the Con becoming "too Large" like some of you are worrying about.
Finding a place better suited for lines with larger tables for gaming, better food for the banquet and a working sound system, and wireless in the rooms *2011 and I am amazed when I get to a hotel without wireless in a room* can be done without the Con getting to big.
Though the cost of the Con may go up.
The location alone has made it doubtful I would attend again, if the location changes I am re-address that.
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This was my first PaizoCon and I had a great time!
I thought the hotel was fine as a venue, although I could tell that PaizoCon is probably pushing the limits of what the Coast can handle. I would not be at all shocked if next year’s PaizoCon moves to a slightly larger / better venue (although if it was held at the Coast again next year, I’d be perfectly fine with that as well)
I thought the banquet food was pretty good. I had no problem getting through the line and there was plenty of food. The sound was kind of an issue, but I was lucky enough to be right in the middle, so I could hear and see perfectly.
The food in the hotel restaurant was pretty good actually. I particularly enjoyed the omelets at breakfast and I was THRILLED to see they had veggie burgers for lunch and dinner!!!
The one thing that did bother me was the amount of staff in the hotel restaurant. I remember reading last year that there were not nearly enough staff during peak times and people had to wait too long for their food. I also recall reading that the Coast promised this would not be an issue this year. Well, it absolutely WAS still a problem this year. I was shocked when I went down for lunch or dinner (pretty typical peak time for a restaurant) and saw only one or two servers for the entire (very filled) room! Friday for dinner, there was only one waiter and most likely a manager, who was literally RUNNING around the restaurant, trying to get to people!
As I said, I had a great time at my first PaizoCon! I can see that the Con would lose some of its charm if it got too big, but I don’t think Paizo would let that happen. I do think PaizoCon will get bigger over the years and that’s OK, as long as it doesn’t get TOO much bigger.
As for the Coast, I thought it was OK and will be again next year if they get to host PaizoCon again. If the venue is moved, I trust Paizo to pick an even better location.
Either way, I will be there next year!
I can see that the Con would lose some of its charm if it got too big, but I don’t think Paizo would let that happen. I do think PaizoCon will get bigger over the years and that’s OK, as long as it doesn’t get TOO much bigger.
I think maybe it's just important not to let it grow too fast at once, so the newcomers can be assimilated into the culture (and add their uniqueness to the whole).
The one thing that did bother me was the amount of staff in the hotel restaurant.
This and the lack of wireless Internet in the rooms were our only complaints. The spousal unit tried calling for room service on Monday morning (not exactly peak hours, I'd imagine, since most of the local con-goers had wandered home by then) and whoever was answering the phone seriously just HUNG UP because they didn't want to deal with the order. Picked the phone up and deliberately just slammed it back down.
I laughed pretty hard when I found out about it. He was less amused.
Anyway, I would imagine that more/better staffing would address that problem. PaizoCon is on the wrong coast for us to become regulars, but I'd like to go back in a couple of years, wherever it's held then.
We actually began looking for a larger place to host PaizoCon *last* year, but we knew that this year, we wouldn't quite be big enough to step up to a larger venue. At this point, though, I'd say that odds are pretty good that PaizoCon 2012 will be in a larger space.
I hope you'll keep it in Bellevue, all the same.
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I'm in Beaver Falls (most famous for being the boyhood home of Joe Namath), a little town about 45 minutes north of Pittsburgh. So, essentially, Pittsburgh. You in PA too?
Just want to point out one more time, as I'm worried people have the wrong idea about what I'm proposing - I don't want the size of the con to increase, necessarily. 500 people seems like a good amount of tickets to sell, 200 or 250 for the banquet, great. I'm merely suggesting that the venue be changed to a place that can actually accommodate that amount of people correctly and without rolling 1's on their profession: lodger checks. That's all.