Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.
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Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.
In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.
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Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.
Not quite Howie23, it only gets 1.5 str if it's the ONLY ATTACK the make that round. If you apply it as you described it would stack with iterative manufactured weapon attacks.
Not quite Howie23, it only gets 1.5 str if it's the ONLY ATTACK the make that round. If you apply it as you described it would stack with iterative manufactured weapon attacks.Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.
I think Howie's right, with the caveat that if you attack with a manufactured weapon it drops to half strength. Your claw doesn't become stronger because you didn't attack with your other claw or your bite.
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I think Howie's right, with the caveat that if you attack with a manufactured weapon it drops to half strength. Your claw doesn't become stronger because you didn't attack with your other claw or your bite.Not quite Howie23, it only gets 1.5 str if it's the ONLY ATTACK the make that round. If you apply it as you described it would stack with iterative manufactured weapon attacks.Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.
If you go by that interpretation you'll have every martial character out there doing a bite for str * 1.5 then just punching (improved unarmed strike) for their iterative attacks.
Do you really want to deal with that can of worms?
I think Howie's right, with the caveat that if you attack with a manufactured weapon it drops to half strength. Your claw doesn't become stronger because you didn't attack with your other claw or your bite.Not quite Howie23, it only gets 1.5 str if it's the ONLY ATTACK the make that round. If you apply it as you described it would stack with iterative manufactured weapon attacks.Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.If you go by that interpretation you'll have every martial character out there doing a bite for str * 1.5 then just punching (improved unarmed strike) for their iterative attacks.
Do you really want to deal with that can of worms?
I don't see that. Unarmed strikes count as a manufactured weapon for purposes of natural attacks, even for monks and monsters, because you get iterative attacks with them. So punching vs weapon doesn't gain you anything.
Also, if you bit first, at full strength and without the penalty, you couldn't then make any iterative attacks, any more than you could make one attack without the TWF penalty, then declare that you're going to make the rest of your iterative attacks with both weapons. Basically, you need to declare every weapon you intend on using, take all appropriate penalties to enable their use, and then make as many attacks as you want and are able to using the weapons you've declared.
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I think Howie's right, with the caveat that if you attack with a manufactured weapon it drops to half strength. Your claw doesn't become stronger because you didn't attack with your other claw or your bite.Not quite Howie23, it only gets 1.5 str if it's the ONLY ATTACK the make that round. If you apply it as you described it would stack with iterative manufactured weapon attacks.Do they get +Str on damage or +1.5 x Str? For the life of me I cannot find a definitive statement on this.In general, natural attacks only get 1.5x STR if the natural attack is the creature's only natural attack. It might also need to be primary. Specific rules (such as the bite note above) can override that.If you go by that interpretation you'll have every martial character out there doing a bite for str * 1.5 then just punching (improved unarmed strike) for their iterative attacks.
Do you really want to deal with that can of worms?
I don't see that. Unarmed strikes count as a manufactured weapon for purposes of natural attacks, even for monks and monsters, because you get iterative attacks with them. So punching vs weapon doesn't gain you anything.
Also, if you bit first, at full strength and without the penalty, you couldn't then make any iterative attacks, any more than you could make one attack without the TWF penalty, then declare that you're going to make the rest of your iterative attacks with both weapons. Basically, you need to declare every weapon you intend on using, take all appropriate penalties to enable their use, and then make as many attacks as you want and are able to using the weapons you've declared.
Doesn't quite work that way.
The rules as written are there to prevent that particular cheese.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.
*snip quote chain*
Doesn't quite work that way.
The rules as written are there to prevent that particular cheese.
If a creature has only one natural attack, it is always made using the creature’s full base attack bonus and adds 1-1/2 times the creature’s Strength bonus on damage rolls. This increase does not apply if the creature has multiple attacks but only takes one.I'm not sure what we're going back and forth about. Here's my stance, and if you're disagreeing, please point out which one you disagree with. If you're agreeing, than we can just move on.
1) If you only have one natural attack, it gets x1.5 and full BAB.
2) If you have several attacks, they're all at x1.0 and full BAB if primary, or x0.5 and BAB-5 if secondary.
3) If you make any manufactured attacks, all your natural attacks become secondary, which means they become x0.5 and BAB-5.
1) If you only have one natural attack, it gets x1.5 and full BAB.
2) If you have several attacks, they're all at x1.0 and full BAB if primary, or x0.5 and BAB-5 if secondary.
3) If you make any manufactured attacks, all your natural attacks become secondary, which means they become x0.5 and BAB-5.
Thanks Bobson (and everyone else). That is exactly the kind of summary I was looking for.
I'm not sure what we're going back and forth about. Here's my stance, and if you're disagreeing, please point out which one you disagree with. If you're agreeing, than we can just move on.
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1) If you only have one natural attack, it gets x1.5 and full BAB.
2) If you have several attacks, they're all at x1.0 and full BAB if primary, or x0.5 and BAB-5 if secondary.
3) If you make any manufactured attacks, all your natural attacks become secondary, which means they become x0.5 and BAB-5.
1a) & 2a) If the eidolon has bite it is x1, unless it is their only attack (page 59 "Base Form" and 60 "Evolutions"). If the eidolon has an additional point invested into bite it does x1.5 (page 60 "Bite") regardless (AKA if it is not the only attack).
1a) & 2a) If the eidolon has bite it is x1, unless it is their only attack (page 59 "Base Form" and 60 "Evolutions"). If the eidolon has an additional point invested into bite it does x1.5 (page 60 "Bite") regardless (AKA if it is not the only attack).I'm not sure what we're going back and forth about. Here's my stance, and if you're disagreeing, please point out which one you disagree with. If you're agreeing, than we can just move on.
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1) If you only have one natural attack, it gets x1.5 and full BAB.
2) If you have several attacks, they're all at x1.0 and full BAB if primary, or x0.5 and BAB-5 if secondary.
3) If you make any manufactured attacks, all your natural attacks become secondary, which means they become x0.5 and BAB-5.
Very good point - Eidolons are once again the exception to the general rules, and since this was a thread about Eidolons, those exceptions are relevant.
SORRY GUYS I GUESS YOU'RE THE MOST INFORMED ON THE EIDOLON AND THEIR ATTACKS WITH WEAPONS AND NATURAL ATTACKS...AND I HAVE A QUESTION, I HAVE AN EIDOLON LV 6 BIPED WITH WINGS CLAWS AND A SPEAR, WITH ALL OF THREE I COULD ATTACK, BUT MY QUESTION IS IN A FULL ATTACK ACTION, I COULD ATTACK WITH WEAPON AS PRIMARY AND CLAWS AND WINGS AS SECONDARY? OR IF I ATTACK WITH THE SPEAR I COULD DO ONLY ONE ATTACK(WITH THE SPEAR)?
AND WITH THE ADVANCEMENT OF BAB ATTACKS WITH WEAPONS WILL BE MORE?PLEASE ANSWER AND THANK YOU A LOT :)
IF I HAVE HAD GRAMMATICAL MISTAKES IN ENGLISH I'M SORRY ^^
At 6th level you would be limited to 1 attack with just the spear at full BAB, or you can take the TWF penalties and make an attack with the spear and any of your natural attacks (up the max as per the eidolon table) as secondary with the appropriate penalties.
i thank you noah...and....i don't know why but...you have the same name and if tob is for tome of battle...you have exactly name and tome of the best of my character that i've created XD WOW!!! and the twf penalties for all the natural attack will be -6 for the spear and - 10 to the natural attacks?
Natural weapons are considered "light" weapons for purposes of TWF, main hand penalty would depend on the type of spear I suppose.
if i get the multiweapon fight feat i will take lesser malus? and so the natural attacks will be all secondary? and last thing....so it will be more vantagious if i attack or with my natural weapons or with my weapon only...not taking super malus..
Multiattack would reduce the penalty from natural weapons to a -2, but you would still need to figure out the penalty from the TWF and take that additional penalty to both the spear and the natural attacks.
If you have that many natural attacks, it is probably better to ignore the spear for your max amount of natural attacks. All primary attacks will be at full BAB and the secondary at -5 unless you have multiattack.