| Azurelink |
From the guide:
Act as One (Ex): At 15th level, the cavalier can spend a standard action to move up to his speed and make a melee attack. All allies within 30 feet can also move up to their speed and make a melee attack as an immediate action. This movement and attack can be made as a charge if the movement qualifies. All attacks are made at a +2 bonus (this stacks with the bonus from a charge) and all participants receive a +2 dodge bonus to their AC for 1 round. A cavalier can use this ability once per combat.
I was wondering... what classifies as an ally? If a player uses Animate Dead and creates an army of undead, would they be an ally and would they be able to run and attack still? What about summoned creatures? I can see this ability being used in conjunction with necromancy. Nothing like being attacked by a bunch of zombies and skeletons twice in one round.
Considering Zombies are staggered, having the ability to move the zombie and attack before having their turn would be nice as well.
| cynarion |
I am not much of a rules lawyer, but as a GM I would base my ruling on the flavour text at the beginning of the Order of the Dragon entry:
Cavaliers belonging to the order of the dragon dedicate themselves to a group of like-minded individuals, be it a mercenary company or a small band of adventurers. These cavaliers believe in loyalty and friendship, and are willing to lay down their lives to protect their allies.
The same word is used there as in the ability--'allies'. To qualify, an 'ally' must be an entity for whom the cavalier is loyal to, is friendly with, and would lay down their lives to protect. I doubt any amount of finagling from one of my players could get me to believe that his character felt that way about a zombie or a skeleton--although one of them does name all his summoned creatures.
If that didn't work, I would then go back to the effect of the ability--it's clearly intended to be some rousing fervour-inducing thing. I would rule it as a mind-affecting effect and therefore skeletons and zombies--both of whom are mindless--could not be affected.
Quite aside from that, if we're talking about more than a handful of zombies then frankly it would be better to start using the mass combat rules that are in Kingmaker.
| Cartigan |
I have to disagree with cynarion due to my old friend "fluff vs rules."
The description of a Dragon Order Cavalier is fluff. Allies, on the other hand, is - more or less - a rules term. An ally is anyone on "your side." Anyone fighting with you/for you is allied with you.
The term "ally" is used in ALL SORTS OF LOCATIONS in the game, far too many to constrain a class ability based on the class' fluff. Where is the fluff to define what an ally is for a Bard? Are "allies" only those things they can get from spells with "Ally" in the name?
Also, where the hell is anyone getting a "bunch" of zombies and skeletons? There are rules governing how many of anything a necromancer can control.
| Azurelink |
While there is a limit, it is still possible to, if you wanted to, get a lot of weaker zombies/skeletons... sort of becoming a minion master. This would be expensive though, but is doable. And then taking a look at level 20, an Oracle of Bones could continually make more as long as there are corpses available, and could also use Summon monster to get more 'allies'.
This would create a decent small army. You could technically get 4x20HD undead or smaller ones (with the variants, you could get 8x10HD of those).
Granted, this is end game but it nevertheless remains a possibility.
So if you had all those summoned and active, Act as One would get all of them to move and attack.
| cynarion |
I have to disagree with cynarion due to my old friend "fluff vs rules."
Actually, we agree. By rules, yes, absolutely it's possible as written (and indeed should be permitted). Having said that, as a GM I get to interpret the rules, and then override them any time I like. This would be one of those times. Hence why I offered my ruling as a GM rather than a rules lawyer. Not that I am using 'rules lawyer' in a pejorative sense in this instance.
Also, where the hell is anyone getting a "bunch" of zombies and skeletons? There are rules governing how many of anything a necromancer can control.
If the cavalier's ability is available at 15th level, it's not unreasonable to assume his companions are of similar level. A 15th level caster who is casting animate dead could control 60 HD of zombies, or 30 human zombies (another assumption, based on the fact that humans are the most common race in Golarion, and in the majority of other fantasy settings). I reckon that qualifies as a "bunch".
Perhaps safer to say a "bunch" of Hit Dice, as it could just as easily be six 10 HD zombies. And it could just as easily be only two or three zombies because the necromancer doesn't have enough onyx.
All the above is filled with assumptions, yes, but with no other information to go on assumptions are stock in trade really.
So all that boils down to is that by Rules As Written, yes, it's permitted. By rules as I would interpret them as a GM, I would not permit it. But if I played under a GM who did permit it, I would not complain. After all, when they're in the big chair they get to call the shots on what's allowed and what isn't.
| Dubiousnessocity |
i think the rules about the zombies being staggered, in my opinion overrules that ability. just because the cavalier is getting everyone all excited to charge, does not mean that a zombie can suddenly leap into his pre undead form and attack like all is good. he is still staggered and there for could only do the charge portion of the action. though whats the point? a zombie isnt much of a distraction to whatever a party of 15th level characters are taking on.
| Cartigan |
If the cavalier's ability is available at 15th level, it's not unreasonable to assume his companions are of similar level. A 15th level caster who is casting animate dead could control 60 HD of zombies, or 30 human zombies (another assumption, based on the fact that humans are the most common race in Golarion, and in the majority of other fantasy settings). I reckon that qualifies as a "bunch".Perhaps safer to say a "bunch" of Hit Dice, as it could just as easily be six 10 HD zombies. And it could just as easily be only two or three zombies because the necromancer doesn't have enough onyx.
All the above is filled with assumptions, yes, but with no other information to go on assumptions are stock in trade really.
So all that boils down to is that by Rules As Written, yes, it's permitted. By rules as I would interpret them as a GM, I would not permit it. But if I played under a GM who did permit it, I would not complain. After all, when they're in the big chair they get to call the shots on what's allowed and what isn't.
How and what, at level 15, will 30 1HD zombies be hitting? 10HD zombie creatures may actually hit something. If you can get them and party members around it.
This is hardly an unbalanced ability, nor even confusing. It just looks like that on paper. Once in actual play you are limited by circumstance and the same numbers that govern everything else in the game.
Mathwei ap Niall
|
i think the rules about the zombies being staggered, in my opinion overrules that ability. just because the cavalier is getting everyone all excited to charge, does not mean that a zombie can suddenly leap into his pre undead form and attack like all is good. he is still staggered and there for could only do the charge portion of the action. though whats the point? a zombie isnt much of a distraction to whatever a party of 15th level characters are taking on.
Uhmm, just because they are staggerred doesn't mean anything.
Per Raw an opponent who is only permitted to take a standard action per round is still allowed to move and attack as long as they declare it as a charge.Every zombie should start combat by declaring a charge for a standard move (usually 30 feet) and then attack with a +2 since they charged.
This ability pretty much functions the same way except they get to do it on someone else's turn.
The bigger issue with this ability is make those allies a party of Two Weapon wielding fighters (rogues/paladins/barbarians) who delayed for the Cavalier to use this power. Suddenly everyone of them effectively gets pounce for free.
Move into range and get an attack then rattle off a full attack immediately after. Whatever was in the way is now dead.
Mathwei ap Niall
|
It doesn't say you get a full attack. It says you can make a melee attack.
They DELAYED for the cavalier to go first, this ggives them the immediate action attack from the cavalier then their DELAYED full action.
A full attack plus an additional attack at full attack bonus is just nasty.