Count Rugen:
Gorbacz is correct. ABSALOM is the flagship city of the setting.
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Since we don't know about entire Golarion yet (so far, it's just the Inner Sea region), it's hard to say.
However, of the known cities, Absalom is clearly the biggest and most influential one.
OMG, I just had a great idea... CAPTAIN ABSALOM!
"That 'A' on my shield doesn't stand for Cheliax!"
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While Absolom is the largest city in the Inner Sea region, We don't know very much about the Padisha Empire of Kelish, nor the Kingdoms of the Impossible Vudra, nor the empires of Tian Xia.
I would hazard a guess that the capitol of the Padisha Empire would be larger then Absolom,
there are also probably larger cites in Vudra, and Tien Xia, especially if they are Imperial capitols.
Absolom reminds me in a way a bit like Singapore, a fairly important City State located at a strategic nexus of trade routs. But Absolom isn't the capitol of a nation nor an empire.
So i would guess, while it is the flagship city of the campaign setting, and the major city of the inner sea region, there are probably larger cites elsewhere on Golaron.
Count Rugen, by the way do you have six fingers?
Maybe it's not the largest, but probably has the greatest influence in Golarion.
The Singapore analogy somehow seems to ring true to me.
Singapore doesn`t have much importance outside the Asian region, and I see Absalom being similar.
Of course, for other Golarion regions who have interests in the Inner Sea Region, Absalom is a convenient neutral base, just like Singapore is.
But unless the Inner Sea Region itself is THE most important region globally, Absalom itself won`t be seen as globally important...
Much less the LARGEST city, which I`m certain Kelesh and possibly Tian and other regions will out-do them in.
Creative Director
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The largest city in Tian Xia is Goka. It's a slight bit smaller than Absalom.
I'm 99.999% sure that we'll be keeping Absalom as the largest city on the planet. That is... the largest currently ACTIVE city on the planet. There were doubtless larger ones in the ancient past.
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Mr. Jacobs, Thank you for taking the time to post on this thread. The Creative Director has spoken. Golaron is the largest city on Golaron. It is interesting to think there are larger metropolises in the past. Gets the mind thinking.
Singapore to me seemed to be an apt analogy for Absolom.
I based my suppositions upon which is perhaps a flawed analogy. I equated the inner sea region to Europe and Africa. Now I may be wrong about this, I’m a photographer (Pathfinder is my second passion) not a historian, but I believe around the 14,00s my impression was that the Muslim world, the Indian subcontinent, and china had larger and more developed civilizations then Europe and Africa at the time.
I have read all the Judge Dee books, and thoroughly enjoyed them. I also am fascinated with the Chinese Treasure Fleet and Zheng He.
I just learned today that Cortez was not the first person to burn his ships to motivate his troops. According to wikepedia, in 711 Tariq ibn Ziyad burned his ships to motivate his troops during the conquest of Spain.
In short, I kind of like the idea of the quasi European “fantasy” like area being a little more backward then other parts of the world. I think it adds to the wonder of exploration as the players explore beyond their “European” cradle.
Now I don’t know, much about the Padisha Empire, or Vudra, or Kandalay, or Tien Xian. I suppose if I run a “Marco Polo” type game, I will have the fun and freedom to make up what my players find along the way.
I look forward to what Paizo has to publish.
By the way Count Rugen, do you happen to have six fingers on a hand?
I honestly was imagining the Golarion Meso-America region to have an Empire who`s City-State capitol was a mega-tropolis akin to Tenochtitlan / Mexico City, which in the actual world was the largest city in the world at the time, and by far larger than most any other city, even though by most measures the Aztecs had the technology of Ancient Greeks or Egyptians, as compared to the Renaissance-level technology of Europe, Middle East, India and China and Japan. I just imagined this aspect, a mega-city, being a special feature of a `fantasy version` or imagining of a magic civilization similar to Aztecs...
In any case, I get the feeling the Absalom will always be the most COSMOPOLITAN of Golarion cities no matter what, which is most relevant to groups like Adventuring PCs, and is most definitive of a `flagship` city, more so than size.
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Well to me my initial assessment makes a little more sense to me. Absolom is a city-state not a national capitol, nor an imperial capitol. The analogy of Absolom to Singapore seems apt to me. Absolom because of its location could easily have been a “Rome” at one point in time in the past.
To me it makes sense that the capitol of the Padisha Empire of Kelish, would be larger, because from what little I can gather, this empire is huge. I think there would be large cities in Vudra, however I don’t know if it is a unified empire, or a loose confederacy of semi-independent maharajas.
I think 100 years ago, Tien Xia had a large continent spanning empire, but with the death of Aroden, it broke up, and now we have a “warring states” situation. I think. To me it would make sense that the former capitol of that empire would be larger then Absolom. But I am not sure about that; a former imperial capitol could deteriorate quite quickly. Look at West crown for example.
Quandry, I like your idea about a magical Aztec society, and a magical Incan society. Perhaps we can ignore the separation in time between the Aztecs and the Mayans and we could include a Mayan society.
It would be interesting to imagine what would happen, with people from the inner sea, having technology closer to the Renaissance as you say, and the Aztecs having technology closer to that of the Greeks, meeting.
I am guessing if you throw in Devine magic, the groups might be on a closer par with each other. Cure Diseases, and various herbal and alchemical remedies could make an interesting difference.
How would the PCs react to the wide scale human sacrifice? How would a cleric of Sarenrae react to the Aztec priest who told him that Tonatiuh the sun god demanded human sacrifice as tribute and without it would refuse to move through the sky? Perhaps that god is a Demon like Lamastu. Anyways an interesting campaign idea.
Its fun to toss ideas about. In my home campaigns I may just have nice big fantastic Aztec Kelish Tien and Vudran cities.
I'm not sure why, but my imagination was captured by Korvosa and Kaer Maga, not Absolom.
I realy liked the setting books on those cities much more then the setting book on absolom.
Anyways at the end of the day, I thinks it’s pretty cool Mr Jacobs would take the time to poke his nose in on the tread and have something to say.
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Creative Director
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Absalom is more like a combination of Jerusalem and Rome, really. It's got a cathedral at its center that hides the Starstone, an artifact that can create gods, and as such it's the focal point for several religions. It's a hotly contested city desired by many nations but ruled by none.
The city books for Absalom, Korvosa, and Kaer Maga were all written by different authors, so I suspect what you're seeing there is nothing more than you prefer the writing style of one author or authors over the other.
One thing for sure-we've only just started the Absalom support. There'll be a LOT more information about this city in the years to come.
I expect Paizo to do Mayan analogs as well (when they get to the Western Continent, which may be a while)
...Though a new take on fallen Ancient Empires (Giant, or Outsider-related?) would make some sense,
and this could be associated with one or more extant `descendant` cultures...
I can see a `big Evil` human sacrifice society, but the different nations around the Texcoco region prior to Aztec conquest/usurpation definitely had some among them that would seem to translate to Good-aligned, or at least a Neutral with Good leanings type of regime... Which I would expect to be represented as well. It will be fun to see how non-Humans play out there, and which if any Inner Sea demi-Humans show up...
Interesting thread topic, anyhow...
I look forward to an AP set in Absalom.
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Mr. Jacobs, I realize my Singapore analog for Absolom only took in the geographic location of the city, and its location lending itself to being a nexus of trade routs.
I did not take the star stone into account. Iomadae, Norgorberger, Cayden Caylen, and probably others achieved their apotheosis with the star stone. It is also where Aroden achieved his apotheosis. That would make Absolom the center for at least three religions, and lots of cults. It would make Absolom very important indeed.
Perhaps it was merely the style of one author over another.
And Mr. Jacobs thank you for taking the time to answer my posts. Especially the silly ones like “where is the impact crater for earth fall?”
Quandry, I am looking forward to what Paizo produces as they move beyond their home base of the inner sea region.
If you have a chance to read the article written on Iobaria in the Kingmaker adventure path, I think you might like it. There are lots of Cyclopean Ruins.
I am looking forward to what Paizo does as they move beyond the Inner Sea region.
One thing I hope the creative people at Paizo do is write up new pantheons for these new regions and cultures. For example, of the gods in the Kelish empire, we only know of Sarenrae. Also of the 10,000 gods of Vudra, we only know of Iorori ( who is polite enough not to mention to Iomadae that he achieved his apotheosis without using a "device"). I’m sure there are other gods as well. If Vudra is inspired by the mythology of India, then i think they have the 10,000 gods right. I remember from one of my visits to india, to my limited myopic ( through a camera lens) westerner's view it seemed as if there was a new temple in every comunity, dedicated to a different god.
I would also like to see another pantheon for the Dragon kingdoms, and perhaps the Aztec’Mayans as well.
I would also like to see the Demi humans vary from region to region. While I’m sure an elf would look good in a kimono or a sari. I think to have elves in Tien Xien, Vudra Arcadia, would be to do a dis service to the Mythologies of China, India and I would be much more interested in seeing Demi Humans inspired by Chinese Japanese, Korean Etc Indan Mythologies
It would be fun to see regional traits feats and yes lots of spells too.
However, I would not be a fan of seeing regional character classes, like the Samurai and the ninja. Archtypes yes, Character classes no….
But that is just my opinion, one amongst many.
And I am not sure what this rant has to do with the size of absolom.
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Since we don't know about entire Golarion yet (so far, it's just the Inner Sea region), it's hard to say.
However, of the known cities, Absalom is clearly the biggest and most influential one.
OMG, I just had a great idea... CAPTAIN ABSALOM!
"That 'A' on my shield doesn't stand for Cheliax!"
One of the PFS GMs out of Missouri has Captain Andoran for one of his characters. Character and fig both are impressive.