I am looking at making a master summoner and was looking for advice with the build.
I was looking at making him human for the extra skill points and feat. is it worthwhile to max out the charisma score?
the goal is to make a character that sits at the back of the battle spamming summons to support the front line fighters.
since his eidolon is weaker, its main focus is guarding the summoner. from what I can tell, the serpent form looks good with a reach bite attack. what would be some good evolutions build off of that? I was thinking either trip or push. that way the attacker would be delayed from getting too close. if I went that route, would weapon finesse or agile maneuvers be a better feat for it?
also, the reason I chose the master summoner over normal summoner was so I could have both the eidolon and a summon monster from the spell like ability in play at the same time.
As you gou up in levels, you'll find that you eidolon is less and less useful in actual combat. I suggest reconfiguring it to act as a super mount and/or knowledge monkey as you hit mid-levels.
Your summons will be the main source of offensive strength as far as combat goes.
Since I would only be get a half as strong eidolon, I figured making it a tank would be best. dont really plan on it doing damage, but just tying up the enemy until my summons attack or allies show up.
what is the best way to do that? I'm afraid that if I make it focus a lot on combat maneuvers it will be too squashy. what is the best way to make it a meat shield?
figure I can had off some knowledge checks to it too...planning on using it heavily for perception anyways.
would I be better off making it a skill monkey instead of a tank?
Since I would only be get a half as strong eidolon, I figured making it a tank would be best. dont really plan on it doing damage, but just tying up the enemy until my summons attack or allies show up.
what is the best way to do that? I'm afraid that if I make it focus a lot on combat maneuvers it will be too squashy. what is the best way to make it a meat shield?
figure I can had off some knowledge checks to it too...planning on using it heavily for perception anyways.
would I be better off making it a skill monkey instead of a tank?
The problem with having it tank is that it's hit points won't scale as fast, being half level; you'll find that around 10th level, your eidolon is very squishy, and probably won't take too many hits. Using a 10th level Master Summoner as an example, your eidolon would only be 5th level, and would have 4 HD. Unless you pump a lot of resources into increasing its durability, it won't last.
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I am looking to make a master summoner very similar to Treeantmonk's archer bard.
my idea is that the summon monster/augment summoning is good enough to stand on it's own so make the eidelon/summoner both archers and stay behind the lines firing arrows in melee and casting buffs. Use feats to make you both better archers. Give the eidelon hand me down bows when you pick up better ones.
The archer route looks nice, but needs a lot of feats...plus I would need to grab martial weapon proficiency for both me and the eidolon.
Would crossbows be useful? I think they are simple weapons.
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Yeah i thought about that but then you have to either deal with the long reload times or burn the feat you would have used on the WP on Rapid Reload. Even with the loss of the feat you are still ahead on skill points though so maybe that is a good route.
I was also looking at maxing out linguistics so i could know the language of everything i summon.
I'm starting to abuse this combo: Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Varisian Tatoo (Conjuration) + Gifted Adept (Summon Monster). Enjoy.
I don't understand how this helps anything. Firstly, don't you have to select a specific spell, such as Summon Monster III ? Secondly, the various Summon Monster spells don't have saves and the caster level dependency is range. So it seems all you've bought yourself is an extra 15 feet of range.
Or am I missing something ?
I was also looking at maxing out linguistics so i could know the language of everything i summon.
it would cool to have the eiledon act as a general relaying your orders to the summons as you focus on other things.
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it would cool to have the eiledon act as a general relaying your orders to the summons as you focus on other things.
I was also looking at maxing out linguistics so i could know the language of everything i summon.
Your eidelon can speak all of your languages but should be able to learn additional languages if he takes linguistics. That is another thought. have you and your eidelon tag team languages.
I'm starting to abuse this combo: Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Varisian Tatoo (Conjuration) + Gifted Adept (Summon Monster). Enjoy.I don't understand how this helps anything. Firstly, don't you have to select a specific spell, such as Summon Monster III ? Secondly, the various Summon Monster spells don't have saves and the caster level dependency is range. So it seems all you've bought yourself is an extra 15 feet of range.
Or am I missing something ?
I don't know either. Having a higher spell level doesn't really do anything for SM spells...
Does it say any where in the rules whether or not eidelons can use wands and scrolls via umd? the last gm I played with was not into familiars doing that.
other then letting the eidolon take over a few skills and try to shoot a crossbow, what else could it be used for?
Most familiars do not have limbs which can work wands or scrolls. Monkey's are a decent choice, along with many of the improved familiars.
With this archtype I would treat your eidolon just like you would a familiar. So any of the threads extolling familiars would be useful for how to use them.
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I present to you my master summoner build.
Campaign rules:
One shot campaign (with possibly going for more)
Level 10
20 pt. build, or roll (away you go randomness)
No magic items, only masterwork... (ouch, how did I got to level 10?)
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Raniel, Level 10 Gnome Master Summoner
Neutral Good
Stats:
Str (10 base, -2 race) 8 total
Dex (14 base) 14 total
Con (14 base, +2 racial) 16 total
Int (10 base) 10 total
Wis (10 base) 10 total
Cha (16 base, 2 Level, +2 racial) 20 total
Hp: 84 (44 from average, 30 from constitution, +10 from toughness)
Saves:
Fort. 6 (3 base,3 con)
Ref. 5 (3 base, 2 dex)
Will 7 (7 base)
CMB: 5 (yeah like i'll be using this much)
CMD: 17 (7 bab, -1 str, 2 dex, -1 size) I BETTER stay away from monsters that like to grab.
Skills: +10 favored bonus
Knowledge Plains: +10 (5 ranks,2 bonus from race feature,3 trained)
Linguistics: 8 (5 ranks,3 trained)*
Spellcraft: 13 (10 ranks, 3 trained)
Use Magic Device: +18 (5 charisma, 10 ranks, 3 trained)
* Languages: Common, Gnome, Sylvan, Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, Terran and Undercommon)
Communicating with summons without a spell is essential, plus summonders don't get many spell slots anyways.
I took the Gnome racial feature that lets him learn 2 additional languages with 1 point of linguistics (APG)[ I think this racial replace is underrated].
Feats:
1- Toughness
2- Augment Summoning (Bonus replace feature)
3- Superior Summoning
5- Extra Summons
7- Craft Wondrous Item (I wanted to take leadership, but my DM said no :()
9- Improved Initiative (why so late? well, we are starting at level 10 so meh).
Summon Monster SLA: 11/11 day.
Spells:
0- Detect Magic, Read Magic, Light, Mending, Magehand, Open/Close
1- Grease, Enlarge Person, Mage Armor, Shield, Featherfall
2- Haste, Invisibility, Resist Energy, Glitterdust, Slow
3- Black Tentacles, Dimension Door, Dispel Magic, Fly
4- Teleport, Wall of Stone
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The Eidolon
With 1/2 effectiveness the eidolon is scratched out from combat, too weak really, What I did for him was specialize him to be as sneaky as possible and act as my "familiar" and a scout.
Name: Spybot
Appearance: Its as big as a gnome, looks metallic, oh! and it has wings![Wish it could be a propeller, just fluff really...])
Biped,Small
STR 14
Dex 16
Con 11
Int 10 (Ability Score increase, Increase Ability Evolution +2)
Wis 10
Cha 11
AC: 20 (3 dex, 1 size,6 natural)
Touch: 14
Flatfooted: 17
Fort. 4
Ref. 4
Will 4
Base attack bonus: +4
CMB: 5
CMD: 17 (hmmm, same as my gnome)
Skills:
Bluff: +8 (5 ranks, 3 trained)
Perception: +16 (5 ranks, 3 trained, +8 evolution)
Stealth: +20 (5 ranks,3 trained, 4 size, 8 evolution)
Fly: +13 (3 dex, 5 ranks, 3 trained, 2 size)
Use Magic Device: +16 ( 5 ranks, 3 trained, 8 evolution)
Disguise: +7 (4 ranks, 3 trained)
Acrobatics: +7 (1 ranks, 3 trained)
Feats:
1- Improved Initiative
3- Go Unnoticed
Evolutions: (8 pts)
Scent 1
Skilled, Perception, Stealth & Use Magic Device 3 total
Increase Stat, Int+2
Flight 2
Take what you like and stuff, please critique and tell me what I can improve.
I think you did a good job with your reduced eidolon.
I'd take spell focus necromancy and the undead summoning myself..
The class gets it for free at second level.
To me the master summoner presents an increased flexibility through summons, At level 10 you can summon a Branali that can cast cure wounds, or use lightning bolt 2 per summon, not to mention i can use ranged weapons, transform in to a whirlwind, at level 11 you can summon a lillend which has a quite a lot of spell casting potential.
My biggest gripe with the standard summon monster is that hideous 1 round cast time, and 1 round/level duration, but the master summoner can use summons as a standard action and they last 1 minute/level!
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I am about to play a master summoner in a Serpent's Skull campaign, and one possible feat for your consideration would be Spell Specialization (Black Tentacles). This would help keep the spell viable into the higher levels.Spell Specialization? This feat?
It requires Spell Focus, which may be seen as a feat tax for a class that doesn't have many feats, and probably should be avoiding DC-based offensive spells anyway, and Black Tentacles doesn't have a save. It might be something you'd get on the way to Augment Summoning, but Master Summoner receives Augment Summoning anyway as a bonus feat without needing prerequisites. Additionally, Black Tentacles might not be worth a feat or two for a +2 to its roll. Is it worth two feats, one you might consider a feat tax, just for a +2 to one spell?
I view Black Tentacles as being more for locking down weaker enemies as well as making difficult terrain, in which case its somewhat poor and poorly scaling CMB roll is not seen as such a hindrance.
Oops...Didn't see that requirement. Yeah, you're right. Not worth it unless you are taking Spell Focus for Varisian Tattoo/Bloatmage, in which case you are burning 4 feats to gain +4 on the spell. Too much of an investment for my blood, but I still really like the use of the spell.
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Sorry to pull this thread from the dead, but what about eldritch heritage? Now normally we don't get too excited about a bloodlines' 1st level powers, but what so many folks are discussing here is essentially a filler action where you hope your summoner casts a couple of spells and spends filler actions that do something - hope the bow shot hits even if it doesn't do much damage and the like.
A handfull of the bloodlines can provide a reasonable power to fill that gap. With the summoner's CHA it should provide at least 7 uses per day.
Bedrock/Deep Earth - gives you a 30' range trip ability (decent skill focus and Iron Hide later with Bedrock)
Seaborn gives you a water blast gives you what is essentially another ranged trip ability (swim as skill focus, OK if situational later power)
Protean provides a tanglefoot bag essentially. (Planes as the skill and reality wrinkle later).
Groveborn gives you a 15' trip or disarm (nature is the skill and lush summons is the later power you can grab at 11th to add +2 natural armor to your summons)
Maestro is pretty cool. It gives you a 1 round daze limited by language (you should have a lot) and HD (you're stuck with perform as your skill but perfect voice can be nice later).
Accursed gives you horrific visage (perception! as the skill focus and dread gaze at 11th).
Primal is mildly tempting with a ray, but only because you get to add elementalist summoning at 11th (+d6 to all 5 attacks from your celestial dire tiger probably isn't necessary, but hey, why not)?
Not bad options for a master summoner.
Sorry to pull this thread from the dead, but what about eldritch heritage? Now normally we don't get too excited about a bloodlines' 1st level powers, but what so many folks are discussing here is essentially a filler action where you hope your summoner casts a couple of spells and spends filler actions that do something - hope the bow shot hits even if it doesn't do much damage and the like.
A handfull of the bloodlines can provide a reasonable power to fill that gap. With the summoner's CHA it should provide at least 7 uses per day.
Bedrock/Deep Earth - gives you a 30' range trip ability (decent skill focus and Iron Hide later with Bedrock)
Seaborn gives you a water blast gives you what is essentially another ranged trip ability (swim as skill focus, OK if situational later power)
Protean provides a tanglefoot bag essentially. (Planes as the skill and reality wrinkle later).
Groveborn gives you a 15' trip or disarm (nature is the skill and lush summons is the later power you can grab at 11th to add +2 natural armor to your summons)
Maestro is pretty cool. It gives you a 1 round daze limited by language (you should have a lot) and HD (you're stuck with perform as your skill but perfect voice can be nice later).
Accursed gives you horrific visage (perception! as the skill focus and dread gaze at 11th).
Primal is mildly tempting with a ray, but only because you get to add elementalist summoning at 11th (+d6 to all 5 attacks from your celestial dire tiger probably isn't necessary, but hey, why not)?
Not bad options for a master summoner.
Actually now that you casted raise dead, I do plan to get an eldritch heritage, the infernal one ,the only good power is the one that lets you summon 1 additional fiendish or demon subtype, but the minimum level for that one is 17 (plus 3 other feats!). If the campaign lasts long enough, I do plan to get them after level 11+
Are the wild-blooded abilities available using eldritch heritage? They are part of an archetype, so I would be interested to see if they are available for that particular feat chain.
Hmmm, don't know actually. I hadn't looked at it that way. It sure doesn't seem unbalancing, but I don't know if it's RAW.
Are the wild-blooded abilities available using eldritch heritage? They are part of an archetype, so I would be interested to see if they are available for that particular feat chain.
By RAW, they are not available since you don't qualify for the wildblooded archetype. But if something is a really good thematic fit, I'd certainly petition my GM. :)
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Are the wild-blooded abilities available using eldritch heritage? They are part of an archetype, so I would be interested to see if they are available for that particular feat chain.Hmmm, don't know actually. I hadn't looked at it that way. It sure doesn't seem unbalancing, but I don't know if it's RAW.
I would be interested in the Primal (Elemental) bloodline for the MS that I am currently playing, and like you said it shouldn't be unbalancing...Skill Focus (Planes) has its place for the character, but the initial Eldritch Bloodline feat for the ray is basically taking a feat, throwing it on the ground, and lighting it on fire.