Magician bard spell choices?

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Hey all,

I'm becoming a fan of the magician bard. If you're not, move along, it's really not up for discussion. But I would like some feedback on what to do with the bonus spells.

Here's what I'm thinking...

First level contenders:

Magic missile - nice to do direct damage, and remains good for auto-hit and fighting incorporeals

Second level contenders:

haste (from summoner) - great choice, but is it too cheaty?

scorching ray - same as magic missile, nice for direct damage

Augury (from witch) - early divination help

Third level contenders:

Fly - surprisingly lacking for bards until phantom steed gets good

[ProfPotts]

Quote:

haste (from summoner) - great choice, but is it too cheaty?

Not 'cheaty' at all really - as a Bard you're limited to level 6 spells, so your best bet is to look at the Summoner and Magus lists first, since they tend to have spells which are higher level on the vanilla Sorcerer/Wizard list 'shifted down' to 6th level or less if they seem to fit the class. For example, your Magician could get Create Demiplane off the list of 6th level Summoner spells, and other such Ultimate Magic goodies... ;)

[Benicio Del Espada]

I agree with the Prof. Also, those all seem like solid choices, for the reasons given.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Normally I agree with you, but Haste is already on the Bard list, at third level.

So, is the magician power 'supposed' to be that good? I'm inclined to say yes, because that's how you fill the caster role as a bard. But I realize some judges may disagree.

[Corlindale]

Doesn't really matter if it's supposed to be that good - it is clearly within the rules as you can pick any arcane spell of a level you can cast, and I don't think it's overpowered at all - the Magician Bard needs to get some good stuff considering all the nice things it gives up, and the somewhat crappy things it gets in return.
And I would actually consider picking Haste a somewhat suboptimal choice, since you can get it anyway a level later as part of your regular spells, and thus you sacrifice potential versatility - you don't get that many spells from outside your list, so make those choices count!

Definately focus on the Summoner list - it can even get you otherwise 9th-level stuff like Dominate Monster eventually, as well as lots of teleportation, summoning and crowd control.

[Viktyr Korimir]

Until the Hedge Witch archetype gave Witches spontaneous healing, I was fond of infernal healing, knock, remove disease, greater teleport, and raise dead.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Ok, here's the revised list, along with two pointers for choosing spells...

--You need great spells in each level to keep up with a straight sorceror. Along with the bard spells that already allow this (Hideous laughter, fear, etc), you can borrow from the summoner list to get haste, dimension door, etc early

--You want to add to you spell list. Taking magic missile is nice, but being able to use scrolls, wands, and staves of magic missile? That's even better.

First level contenders:

Magic missile - nice to do direct damage, and remains good for auto-hit and fighting incorporeals

Second level contenders:

Haste (from summoner) - great choice, but is it too cheaty?
Augury (from witch) - early divination help
Knock - good if you need to also be the rogue from Viktyr

Third level contenders:

Black Tentacles (summoner) - battlefield control is nice to have
Dimension Door (summoner) - always good
Fly - surprisingly lacking for bards until phantom steed gets good
Remove blindness/Disease/Curse (witch) - from Viktyr
Wall of fire/ice (summoner) - bards don't normally get walls

Fourth level contenders:

Teleport - if you don't like shadow walk
Overland Flight - all day is really nice

Fifth level contenders:
Planar binding (summoner) - goes well with high CHA
Wall of force - a staple

Sixth level contenders:

Contingency - one of my favorite spells
Disintegrate - Little weak, but a good property damage spell
Dominate Monster (summoner) - good, but save DC is lower
Greater Teleport -from Viktyr
Maze (summoner)- no save makes this super useful
Raise Dead (witch) - enough said
Summon Monster IX (summoner)- lots of versatility here

[Benicio Del Espada]

Good choices, though I'd rather use a scroll or wand for knock. Acid Arrow is good for wimpy damage, but it's no save, no SR, and also forces concentration checks for casters.

[Anonymous Visitor 163 576]

Personally, my preference is for Shatter over Knock, it's just more versatile.

Viktyr voted for Knock though, and in the right campaign, it's the better choice.