Ex-Clerics: A cleric who grossly violates the code of conduct required by her god loses all spells and class features, except for armor and shield proficiencies and profeiciency with simple weapons. She cannot therafter gain levels as a cleric of that god until she atones for her deeds (see the atonement spell description).
Question, If a cleric changes gods, does she lose all past cleric levels?
Question, If a cleric god dies, can the cleric still advance in cleric levels?? without the spells, domains, and granted powers. (((Kind of like a non-magical cleric)). ((or if the cleric moves to a different PMatieral plane that does not have that god listed))
Question, Can someone take cleric levels and advance as a cleric ((without the spells, domains, granted poweres)), as a priest/follower of a new divine concept/god/idea. One that is not or has not yet been recognized?
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1) There are few effects that cause a character to lose or change levels that she already has. For many gods (though I can think of a couple of exceptions) practicing as a priest of a different god grossly violates the new god's code, so the cleric changing gods would have to atone for her past, then she would become in all ways a cleric of the new god with the same number of levels.
2a) I would say no. Unless she picks a different patron, she can only advance as an aristocrat, expert or warrior (or some other PC class, if the player prefers).
2b) The priest bringing in her blessed Holy Symbol and praying in the god's name should give it at least limited awareness and ability to act in the new Material Plane. Setting up a consecrated temple and confirming some new worshippers definitely should establish the god there. The existing gods of the plane and their followers might have a few things to say about this, or they might accept the priest's deity as an aspect of one of the local gods.
3) Ways to establish a new god vary by setting (say, by Material Plane). I don't think she should receive cleric levels or spells until she has done what the setting establishes as necessary actually to make the new deity a god, then it starts out as a demigod until she or her deity gains more influence. Before that, again, she can take levels in some other NPC or PC class.
Question, If a cleric changes gods, does she lose all past cleric levels?
No, but as soon as she leaves the service of her old deity, she loses all class abilities (except the basics). She then needs to get a new patron deity, and one who recognises her as a cleric (there might be a quest involved to get that part going).
At that point, she gains back spellcasting. Some spells might become available to her that were not before (or the other way around), depending on the deities' special options (like spells that are exclusive to one religion, or the deity's alignment allowing certain alignment spells)
Note that she'll probably have to get two new domains, as the old ones might not be available to her with the new deity.
Then there's weapon proficiency: A cleric is proficient in her deity's favoured weapon. It would make sense that this doesn't change when you change gods, but you can always say the new deity grants that proficiency instantly. Deities get to do a lot of funky stuff, making someone instantly lose proficiency in one weapon and gain another should be no problem at all.
Question, If a cleric god dies, can the cleric still advance in cleric levels?? without the spells, domains, and granted powers. (((Kind of like a non-magical cleric)). ((or if the cleric moves to a different PMatieral plane that does not have that god listed))
In the case of a dead god, I'd let the cleric advance as cleric - but until they gain a new patron, those clerics will get no supernatural abilities.
I'd do it like this to allow a cleric who's "between patrons" to advance as cleric so that he won't have to multiclass should he gain a level while he doesn't have a deity.
If a cleric travels to a place her god isn't worshipped, you can do two things as a GM: bar them their powers because the god doesn't have any influence there, or let them keep casting because they have a special conduit to their god.
I consider the latter better because it doesn't screw up the cleric. Of course, if you plan to permanently move the campaign to another world without chance of return, you might do differently, but if it's only a side trip, you'll sentence the cleric's player to be virtually powerless for the duration of that part of the campaign. Not something people like.
Question, Can someone take cleric levels and advance as a cleric ((without the spells, domains, granted poweres)), as a priest/follower of a new divine concept/god/idea. One that is not or has not yet been recognized?
If it is a divine power, why would that cleric have no divine power?
I presume that Oliver is talking about someone who's making up a god on the spot that doesn't really exist.
The answer to that question is that if the god does exist say as a newly ascended (or descended) Power, he can empower new clerics on the spot. If the god does not exist... no amount of wishful thinking will make someone a functional cleric.
What about Dis-Functional cleric ?
No spells, No domains, No Favorite weapon, No Grated powers.
But He still has
3/4 BAB = Which means he still fights just like he did before.
1d8 Hp = He still has life in him.
Skill = What little he gets he still keeps.
Feats = What he gets for character level he still keeps.
He can still fight, adventure, and preach about strange gods, goddess, forces of nature.
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Ok, slightly different question. So are you saying that the following classes do not get any level advancement or exp if
A barbarian choses to fight without using rage ?
A Bard choses to not cast spells ?
A bard chose to only cast spells and not fight ?
A bard only chose to sing and not cast spells or fight ?
A Druid refuses to shapechange and cast spells, but fights throw the adventure with weapons, skills, and feats ?
A monk only fights with one weapon and refused to use furry of blows?
A paladin refused to use Laying on hand or spells, but fights everthing out like a fighter?
A Ranger refused to use his spells or favorite enemy bonus in a fight?
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So what about Cleric in a True Non-Magical world, Do thy just not exist, or do they Strive on without there gods trying to defend the faith?
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No spells, No domains, No Favorite weapon, No Grated powers.
But He still has
3/4 BAB = Which means he still fights just like he did before.
1d8 Hp = He still has life in him.
Skill = What little he gets he still keeps.
Feats = What he gets for character level he still keeps.He can still fight, adventure, and preach about strange gods, goddess, forces of nature.
If he has experience in fighting with simple weapons and in talking, he should advance as an expert.
Ok, slightly different question. So are you saying that the following classes do not get any level advancement or exp if
It's a completely different question. A GM might well ask how and why such a character should gain a level in that class, or get full XP for such behaviour.
So what about Cleric in a True Non-Magical world, Do thy just not exist, or do they Strive on without there gods trying to defend the faith?
Do spellcasters exist in a non-magical world? No, they do not. Such a character would have some other class with no magical abilities.
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In the case of a dead god, I'd let the cleric advance as cleric - but until they gain a new patron, those clerics will get no supernatural abilities.
I'd do it like this to allow a cleric who's "between patrons" to advance as cleric so that he won't have to multiclass should he gain a level while he doesn't have a deity.
That's a fair concern. Keeping faith when your deity doesn't answer and his enemies keep telling you he's gone can't be an easy life (and isn't, for published examples of clerics of Aroden).
Tower of the Last Baron
So what about Cleric in a True Non-Magical world, Do thy just not exist, or do they Strive on without there gods trying to defend the faith?
There are priests in such worlds, but they don't have levels in the cleric class. I'd give them levels in expert.
So what is wrong with advancing as a cleric class.... if you do not have any spells, granted powers, deity favorited weapon, channeling powers.