Magus: Strength or Dexterity?

[Xum]

B0sh1 wrote:

Xum wrote:

Anyone else?

Are you going to multi-class into duelist or go single-class magus. Also, any archetypes. What traits are you taking?

The dex build I have in mind is a Keleshite human using scimitar and dervish dance is going to be Blade Bound. My GM is letting me take my black blade as a heirloom weapon. My other trait is one that will be +2 to concentration. I am debating taking Combat Casting at 1st level or not.

no multiclass. Bladebound.

[B0sh1]

Xum wrote:

B0sh1 wrote:

Xum wrote:

Anyone else?

Are you going to multi-class into duelist or go single-class magus. Also, any archetypes. What traits are you taking?

The dex build I have in mind is a Keleshite human using scimitar and dervish dance is going to be Blade Bound. My GM is letting me take my black blade as a heirloom weapon. My other trait is one that will be +2 to concentration. I am debating taking Combat Casting at 1st level or not.

no multiclass. Bladebound.

I have a notepad file per class where I build out classes, I just started trying to build out a bladebound magus. I may be way off base, but hope it helps. I never considered an elf and I don't have a solid 20 level build out yet, even getting to 12 I am not sure as to all the feats I may want or my order.

The only thing I am sure on is getting Close range as my first arcana so I can use 0-level cantrip, like ray of frost to get an extra attack with Spell Combat/Spellstrike combo.

Race - Human - Keleshite (Scimitar Build)
Magus - Bladebound Archetype

Traits;

Heirloom Weapon (Scimitar - Black Blade)
Desperate Focus (+2 concentration check) or Magical Lineage (Shocking Grasp)

1 Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting (or Toughness)
2 Spell Strike
3 Dervish Dance; Magus Arcana (Close Range)
4 Spell Recall
5 Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Extra Arcane Pool
6 Magus Arcana (Arcane Accuracy)
7 Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Intensified Spell
8 Improved Spell Combat
9 Magus Arcana (Empowered Magic), Character Adv Feat
10 Fighter Training
11 Improved Spell Recall, Weapon Specialization (Scimitar), Character Adv Feat
12 Magus Arcana (Maximized Magic or Critical Strike)

[calagnar]

Str base is over all easyer to do and less feat taxing. After level 10 your AC will never be high enough to realy count for much. And with focusing on Str it will make your power attack damage higher.

I don't see the use of Bladebound Magus. You have a round about way of haven a few more magus arcane points. And a free Int magic weapon. Personly I wold go Magus(Hexcaster). Picking up Blackblade some time after level 10 if you still want it. Hexcaster gives you the ability to charry pick Hexs like Evil Eye, Fly, and Misfortune. And take every thing else as magus arcana powers. The only thing you lose is the ability to use your spell pool to recover spells.

[Kierato]

calagnar wrote:

Str base is over all easyer to do and less feat taxing. After level 10 your AC will never be high enough to realy count for much. And with focusing on Str it will make your power attack damage higher.

I don't see the use of Bladebound Magus. You have a round about way of haven a few more magus arcane points. And a free Int magic weapon. Personly I wold go Magus(Hexcaster). Picking up Blackblade some time after level 10 if you still want it. Hexcaster gives you the ability to charry pick Hexs like Evil Eye, Fly, and Misfortune. And take every thing else as magus arcana powers. The only thing you lose is the ability to use your spell pool to recover spells.

You cannot pick up archtypes at a later date. You have to pick it up when you would make the first change. In this case it should probably be 1st level(it alters arcane pool, a first level ability) or 3rd level (when you get the black blade).

I consider the loss of recover spells to expensive.

[calagnar]

Kierato wrote:

calagnar wrote:

Str base is over all easyer to do and less feat taxing. After level 10 your AC will never be high enough to realy count for much. And with focusing on Str it will make your power attack damage higher.

I don't see the use of Bladebound Magus. You have a round about way of haven a few more magus arcane points. And a free Int magic weapon. Personly I wold go Magus(Hexcaster). Picking up Blackblade some time after level 10 if you still want it. Hexcaster gives you the ability to charry pick Hexs like Evil Eye, Fly, and Misfortune. And take every thing else as magus arcana powers. The only thing you lose is the ability to use your spell pool to recover spells.

You cannot pick up archtypes at a later date. You have to pick it up when you would make the first change. In this case it should probably be 1st level(it alters arcane pool, a first level ability) or 3rd level (when you get the black blade).

I consider the loss of recover spells to expensive.

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.

Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

[Kierato]

calagnar wrote:

Kierato wrote:

calagnar wrote:

Str base is over all easyer to do and less feat taxing. After level 10 your AC will never be high enough to realy count for much. And with focusing on Str it will make your power attack damage higher.

I don't see the use of Bladebound Magus. You have a round about way of haven a few more magus arcane points. And a free Int magic weapon. Personly I wold go Magus(Hexcaster). Picking up Blackblade some time after level 10 if you still want it. Hexcaster gives you the ability to charry pick Hexs like Evil Eye, Fly, and Misfortune. And take every thing else as magus arcana powers. The only thing you lose is the ability to use your spell pool to recover spells.

You cannot pick up archtypes at a later date. You have to pick it up when you would make the first change. In this case it should probably be 1st level(it alters arcane pool, a first level ability) or 3rd level (when you get the black blade).

I consider the loss of recover spells to expensive.

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.

Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

The only black blade I see is in the blade bound archtype. If you are not a blade bound, you cannot get a black blade.

[Jadeite]

calagnar wrote:

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.
Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

Maybe you should take a look into the book instead of quoting unfinished d20pfsrd pages that still have formatting issues?

If you read the whole text, it becomes pretty obvious, that the hexcrafter text is supposed to be

Quote:

a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.

[Kierato]

Jadeite wrote:

calagnar wrote:

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.
Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

Maybe you should take a look into the book instead of quoting unfinished d20pfsrd pages that still have formatting issues?

If you read the whole text, it becomes pretty obvious, that the hexcrafter text is supposed to be

Quote:

a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.

I'll have you know that I bought the PDF the day it came out.

And what does that have to do with the black blade? it is not a magus arcana or hex, it is an item in the blade bound archtype.

[Jadeite]

Kierato wrote:

Jadeite wrote:

calagnar wrote:

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.
Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

Maybe you should take a look into the book instead of quoting unfinished d20pfsrd pages that still have formatting issues?

If you read the whole text, it becomes pretty obvious, that the hexcrafter text is supposed to be

Quote:

a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.

I'll have you know that I bought the PDF the day it came out.

And what does that have to do with the black blade? it is not a magus arcana or hex, it is an item in the blade bound archtype.

I wasn't replying to calagnar, not to you.

In the d20pfsrd copy of the magus archetypes, there is a formatting error that caused the black blades box to be included in the hex crafter text. The fact that that's an error is rather obvious, but apparently still confused a few people

[Kierato]

Jadeite wrote:

Kierato wrote:

Jadeite wrote:

calagnar wrote:

Black blade not bladebound. I was wrong on the level it's 12 not 10.
Hex Arcana: A hexcrafter gains access to the following magus arcana, or may select any witch hex in place of a magus arcana. At 12th level, the hexcrafter may select Black Blades.

And the cost to recover spells. Is high compared to how meny points you get. Unless your just pulling 1st and 2nd level spells. Hexs can be used over and over with out pulling any points from your arcane pool. Or useing spells. And you still get the Black Blade even if you do have be level 12 to get it.

Maybe you should take a look into the book instead of quoting unfinished d20pfsrd pages that still have formatting issues?

If you read the whole text, it becomes pretty obvious, that the hexcrafter text is supposed to be

Quote:

a hex or major hex in place of a magus arcana. At 20th level, a hexcrafter can select a hex, major hex, or grand hex in place of a magus arcana. He cannot select any hex or arcana more than once.

I'll have you know that I bought the PDF the day it came out.

And what does that have to do with the black blade? it is not a magus arcana or hex, it is an item in the blade bound archtype.

I wasn't replying to calagnar, not to you.

In the d20pfsrd copy of the magus archetypes, there is a formatting error that caused the black blades box to be included in the hex crafter text. The fact that that's an error is rather obvious, but apparently still confused a few people

My apologies.

[james maissen]

Matt Stich wrote:

So, I've seen a few posts here and there about the pros of going straight Dexterity with a scimitar for the Magus, but I'm wondering: From a DPR standpoint and a MAD standpoint what is better to focus on? Dexterity or Strength? You don't need dexterity for spell combat, but dexterity makes you that much more MAD if you don't take the feat Dervish Dance.

Well I don't tend to think solely in DPR, but rather in effectiveness. Would you ever put out a 20STR 7WIS fighter and call them effective? The 20STR is great, but a 7WIS is death for a PC that is going to draw WILL saves.

So with that in consideration:

DEX is stronger imho for the 1-12 run that you would see in PFS (which is where my thoughts lie in the matter)... and arguably beyond that, especially if you have to play up from 1st level.

At higher levels initiative matters more than in low levels. So given that, I'm assuming that a STR build will sport for improved initiative to bridge the gap, which cuts into the feat advantage that the STR build has.

Moreover, I doubt people are suggesting a 10 DEX STR-based magus, so there will be stat disparity. If the DEX build is opting for power attack then the disparity is likely only 2 stat-creation points, but it is still there. And seeing as by 14th level power attack is merely adding +6 damage this is not a given by any means. If the DEX build doesn't go for it then there is the feat gap. Moreover these extra points can ameliorate the CON hit for being ELF (if such is chosen, mostly by the DEX group as the STR group needs a race that can bump STR) allowing them to have an advantage in stat spread.

When you factor in the REF save and DEX skill advantages that the DEX build has, you see it sporting celestial chain rather than eventually swapping out armor (yet again) for heavy armor at 13th. The DEX build has mobility over the heavy armor STR build to boot.

The STR build gets STR drain resistance, better carrying capacity, and better CMB for some combat maneuvers. I don't see any of these as being the mainstay of a magus however. Meanwhile I can see acrobatics and stealth being quite useful.

-James

[Todd Morgan]

I assume most Dex Magi will go the Dervish route, but will Power Attack be of any use? I was thinking about building one, and unless I go human, the feat progression will be WF, DD, Combat Casting and then Power Attack.