Hello,
are i am the only one who has a problem with the skill DCs? Most of the DCs are between 5 and 15. Beating this DCs is very easy without specialization. As a normal 1rst levle charakter you have a class skill of +6 (CS +3,+1 rang, +2 attribute), more if you specializised (special items with bonus (military sattle for riding etc.), class features, skill focus etc). Outside of combat you will beat easily everything with take 20 or take 10. I think it isnt a challange to do something special at 1rst level outside of combat. I know there are some exeptions but i think it is a general problem.
In combat it is more challenging but almost too easy.
Are you with me? :)
Hello,
are i am the only one who has a problem with the skill DCs? Most of the DCs are between 5 and 15. Beating this DCs is very easy without specialization. As a normal 1rst levle charakter you have a class skill of +6 (CS +3,+1 rang, +2 attribute), more if you specializised (special items with bonus (military sattle for riding etc.), class features, skill focus etc). Outside of combat you will beat easily everything with take 20 or take 10. I think it isnt a challange to do something special at 1rst level outside of combat. I know there are some exeptions but i think it is a general problem.In combat it is more challenging but almost too easy.
Are you with me? :)
I think that the skills DCs are tailored around what an average human might do.
Player characters on the other hand are heroic and exceptional individuals.
It has a lot to with the consistency of a world, or do you think that no commoner should be able to climb a rope or jump over the ledge? :)
When it comes to more exotic skills, such as use magic device, I think they are set ok for the most part.
Hello,
are i am the only one who has a problem with the skill DCs? Most of the DCs are between 5 and 15. Beating this DCs is very easy without specialization. As a normal 1rst levle charakter you have a class skill of +6 (CS +3,+1 rang, +2 attribute), more if you specializised (special items with bonus (military sattle for riding etc.), class features, skill focus etc). Outside of combat you will beat easily everything with take 20 or take 10. I think it isnt a challange to do something special at 1rst level outside of combat. I know there are some exeptions but i think it is a general problem.In combat it is more challenging but almost too easy.
Are you with me? :)
The only skill I specifically have issues with in terms of low DCs is the Ride skill--especially the DC 5 for "Guide With Knees" to use both hands in combat while astride. Riding a horse (or other animal) in combat is not easy, and I add +5 to most of the DCs in my game (which just makes it more worth it to put ranks in ride--otherwise you don't even really need to bother if you have a good dexterity if you stick to doing the simple stuff--and again, riding should be harder than that, IMO.
Generally, otherwise--a lot of the hardest skill checks are opposed -- Bluff vs Sense Motive, Perception vs Stealth. That means the DCs essentially naturally scale with level (provided you are dealing with characters who are consistently training said skills as they level up). There are other skill checks that do scale--for example, a Knowledge check to identify a monster's abilities is DC 10+CR (or 15+CR for a very unusual creature).
It is true there are few skill uses listed that go above DC 20---meaning if you are running a high level game, any character who has trained the skill will likely beat the DC with no problem. But on the other hand, the point of being a high level character is that many of the relatively common tasks listed are going to be well within the character's capabilities.
Having run a high level game, I find an important thing to bear in mind for that kind of situation in particular is
1) If they've spent the resources to be really, really good at that skill, then don't fight it. If they have enough ranks to auto succeed, then they auto-succeed--move on with the plot already. Moreover, use it to your storytelling advantage--your PC has an insane modifier to Knowledge (Planes)? Then have them recognize the obscure symbol of a demon lord only they would recognize, as that helps you guide them through the plot. It makes them feel useful for having built their character a certain way and it makes things easier on you--if you let it--for having the PCs abilities enable you to present the story.
2) Use opposed checks.
3) Remember situational modifiers. The sample skill DCs listed are usually common applications skills in average circumstances. An Acrobatics check to jump onto a box is one thing. An Acrobatics check to jump onto a 10 foot wall that is slick and covered with spikes is a different matter.
Regarding taking 10 and taking 20 --- these things represent time taken. Even out of combat, PCs should not always have that luxury. If the dragon is about to eat the princess down the hall, you don't have time to take 20 to get the door unlocked. Now, this does not mean NEVER give the PCs time to perform a lengthy skill check--but non-combat time should not automatically mean downtime. And some skill checks can't reasonably allow a take 10 or 20 anyway (which is up to the GM and general reason).
ETA: Also, there is an issue of scale of success. Succeeding far beyond the necessary DC may supply more information or a more cooperative PC or what-have-you. If you make your DC 17 Knowledge (Planes) check to be able to say, "That's a succubus. Don't let her grab you, and we'll need cold iron weapons to take her down fast." That's one thing. But say you rolled 37 on that same check. Then you might be able to say, "Ah, yes, Darkmistress Charity of the Succubus Legion of Corruptive Decadence. I've heard of your exploits with the Prince of Balonia; indeed, I see you bear the scars still from the attacks of Prince's Holy Protector. Do you think it's really worth tangling us, who are twice as strong as he is?"
A lot of skills used to have higher DCs listed in 3.0. I think they removed most of them because when they designed the system they didn't expect characters to reliably hit DC 30s and 40s, but were shown how wrong they were. I think it was a DC35 or 40 to use ballance to walk on water. Many GMs did not like fantastical things being able to be done with skill checks, especially with set DCs, even if those DCs were pretty rediculous. I liked them as examples so that people understood what a DC of 30+ should mean and how good you were at that point, and they put mundane tasks into perspective.
So I have to say, if you have players who can hit rediculous numbers give them obsticals that they need to use those rediculous numbers on, and make them understand how insane it is, like walking a tripwire in a huricane.