The monk found a book that allowed him to understand Genie (although we haven't come across any yet), so I guessed we'd probably come across some later on.
Note that this kind of thinking is meta-gaming. You think just because you found a genie-book, there will be genies later on. Some GMs come down on that stuff like a ton of bricks, so be sure to not let it influence your character or his decisions.
Not actually owning the Legacy of Fire book myself, if I ever got the chance to grant a wish, does the DM actually have a long list of wishes (that were actually made for this campaign) for me to choose from?
There is no list of wishes. Wishes are wishes. There's no multiple choice test.
The wish spell does have a number of things it can grant automatically (like "duplicate a spell of level X or lower on the sorcerer/wizard spell list"). Everything on that list, as well as stuff that is in line with it, powers-wise, is safe to wish for. If you want something more, you'll sail into uncharted waters, and there's a chance the wish will be corrupted (corrupt the spirit of the wish while staying true to the letter, and screwing you over in the process), and the more you wish fore, the more can usually go wrong.
The standard list of safe things is in the spell description. The rest is, more or less, everything - though you'll have to make sure you're not too greedy.
As for not reaching level 20, do you know if there's a reason for this?
Yep. Adventure design gets harder the further up you go. There will be less monsters you can just use right out of the book to challenge characters with, so you'll need to use more NPCs (characters or monsters with extra class levels, or even advanced creatures). If you do that, you need to print the whole stat block (instead of just referencing the bestiary), so the more you do that, the more space is used up on stat blocks. And the stat blocks tend to become longer for higher-level characters, too.
And beyond that, the limits characters face get fewer and fewer.
So APs usually go up to relatively high levels (Highest so far has been 17, though others end a bit sooner), but not all the way up (though they usually have ideas for expanding the campaign if the GM wants to keep running)
Supposedly we're a level or two above what we're meant to be, so I guess it's possible to reach level 20, even if the book doesn't intend for us to.
Not very likely. LoF is scheduled to end around level 15. I don't think 5 extra levels are in the cards.
Stuff would get dead boring, anyway.
Note that this kind of thinking is meta-gaming. You think just because you found a genie-book, there will be genies later on. Some GMs come down on that stuff like a ton of bricks, so be sure to not let it influence your character or his decisions.
Do in game characters not get gut instinct or intuition around things like this then? I'm still learning things as I don't think the game's as big here in England, as it is in America, so the only way I can learn is if I ask a billion questions. :p
I used to meta-game a fair bit without meaning to, and when I got told to try and do it a little less, I stopped altogether at the table, and now just act 100% in character. I mean a 40 year old guy who plays with us (I'm 24, and my friends who play range between 21 and 24) thought I was asking him to stop making jokes out of character, and started having a go at me as a player until the DM told him I was talking in character. Strange.
Now everyone meta-games more than me, and it doesn't bother me, but it's just a little hard to do things in front of them when I know they'll subconsciously plan against me even if their character is unaware of things.
I mean I was unaware that I was confused by magic, so when I came out of it and had two arrows stuck in my chest and in a good deal of pain, I didn't know why it happened. The same thing happened when I turned into a Were-Leopard and killed the party cleric with one attack. I as a character was unaware of being a Were (haha!), but as a player obviously I knew exactly what was going on. I just didn't let it influence my decision as a character, so in character wondered why the Sorcerer punched me in the face, then was told it was because I killed the Monk's brother. Oops.
There is no list of wishes. Wishes are wishes. There's no multiple choice test.
The standard list of safe things is in the spell description. The rest is, more or less, everything - though you'll have to make sure you're not too greedy.
So could I in fact wish for a kingdom to use as a safe haven for other half-ling's who broke away from slavery? If so, it would be kinda cool to set up a base of operations for rescuing other Half-ling's, and if I really had to go into detail with it, I'd sort out the income so people living there all get their own money and work for a living.
Thanks for clearing the rest up for me. :)
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Things to wish for that GM's love:
I wish to own a magnificent keep worthy of the kings of old (translation: Give me a deed and a map, I have a keep to clean out).
I wish my legend to spread throughout the Inner Sea as a Tale to inspire (Translation: Hello, I'm your new Bard npc.)
Wishes you wish you hadnt made, but GMs love anyway:
I wish I had ____ just like a ___ (Poof: you become ___)
I wish for all my attributes to be razed. (GM lifts eyebrow, 'Did you say raised or razed'? Player confused responds, 'Uh, yes?')
Wishes my GM wishes I never wished:
Without changing myself, physically; I wish to be immortal.
I wish to find a Deck of Many Things.... (Bittersweet victory for a GM)
I wish to have all undead within a 1 mile radius to be unfailingly loyal to me alone... (This is 2E D&D, when wish had more punch. We were being attacked by Mummies after being randomly teleported somewhere. Turns out it was inside Mount Waterdeep)....
Well, I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to wish for anything, but if I do, I like the idea of these wishes. Though some are maybe too much to ask:
1. I wish to be immortal, without changing my mental or physical form in any way other than what I can already do (meaning I should be able to keep my Were abilities).
2. I wish to have a deed for a relatively large plot of land already occupied by a once used but vacant Castle, that's in pristine condition and ready for me to occupy.
3. I wish for the world to know that I am the Half-ling King.
4. I wish for anyone who opposes me to have 10 strength and dex damage.
5. I wish for the world to know there is a safe haven for all good half-ling's.
6. I wish all Half-ling's living within my Kingdom to be seen as the Dominant species of the world.
7. I wish for anyone visiting my kingdom with good intentions to have a permanent boost of +2 to Will saves.
8. I wish for a 100 foot statue of myself to be placed at the peak of a mountain for everyone to see.
9. I wish nobody can ever successfully cast death on me.
10. I wish to have Angel wings when I pass the age of 100.
Well, I don't know if I'll ever get a chance to wish for anything, but if I do, I like the idea of these wishes. Though some are maybe too much to ask:
1. I wish to be immortal, without changing my mental or physical form in any way other than what I can already do (meaning I should be able to keep my Were abilities).
2. I wish to have a deed for a relatively large plot of land already occupied by a once used but vacant Castle, that's in pristine condition and ready for me to occupy.
3. I wish for the world to know that I am the Half-ling King.
4. I wish for anyone who opposes me to have 10 strength and dex damage.
5. I wish for the world to know there is a safe haven for all good half-ling's.
6. I wish all Half-ling's living within my Kingdom to be seen as the Dominant species of the world.
7. I wish for anyone visiting my kingdom with good intentions to have a permanent boost of +2 to Will saves.
8. I wish for a 100 foot statue of myself to be placed at the peak of a mountain for everyone to see.
9. I wish nobody can ever successfully cast death on me.
10. I wish to have Angel wings when I pass the age of 100.
Bah! Wish yourself a Tarrasque-Lich with Asmodeus as a loyal cohort! Since Asmodeus is lord of the Nine, you effectively have the entirety of the Nine Hells as potential henchman, to go along with the fact you're a nigh-indestructible caster. :P
Bah! Wish yourself a Tarrasque-Lich with Asmodeus as a loyal cohort! Since Asmodeus is lord of the Nine, you effectively have the entirety of the Nine Hells as potential henchman, to go along with the fact you're a nigh-indestructible caster. :P
Haha, well I still like my physical form, but controlling everything within the 9 gates of hell would be funny.
For a start it'd be ironic, as I'm making evil creatures kill only evil, so they'd be wiping out their own kind in theory, and as soon as the evil creatures they kill die, they'll go to hell and be under my control also.
An evergrowing army! :p
Halfling is a species, like human, or orc. It's not half of a ling. Therefore no hyphen. Not half-ling, halfling. That is all.
Do in game characters not get gut instinct or intuition around things like this then?
Nope, not like that. It's because as far as the characters are concerned, they're not in a story.
We, the players and GM, know they are in a story, but for them, it's just life.
We know that when the characters are sent to a small, unassuming village at the beginning of an adventure path, they're going to see things set in motion that could change the world forever. Because it's the first book in an adventure path that goes all the way up to high levels.
But for the characters, it's tuesday. They go to an unassuming village like they did a thousand times in the past. They have no idea that those thousand times happened "off screen".
In short: The characters aren't Genre Savvy. They will not recognise Chekov's Gun for what it is.
We, the players do, because we know it's a kind of story, and we look for story-like patterns. We assume everything is there for a reason in the story, everything makes sense. They don't know that they're in that story. They are used to stuff that just happens, no reason, no rhyme, no consequences down the road.
I'm still learning things as I don't think the game's as big here in England, as it is in America, so the only way I can learn is if I ask a billion questions. :p
As small as it is in England, I think it's even smaller over here in Germany :P
I used to meta-game a fair bit without meaning to
Well, everyone does it I think. Especially at first. Nothing inherently wrong with it. Humans are trained to think in stories. And when they are dealing with what is obviously a real actual story, they can't help themselves.
RPGs are a really weird thing. They need some getting used to.
So could I in fact wish for a kingdom to use as a safe haven for other half-ling's who broke away from slavery? If so, it would be kinda cool to set up a base of operations for rescuing other Half-ling's, and if I really had to go into detail with it, I'd sort out the income so people living there all get their own money and work for a living.
You can wish for everything. The tricky part is getting your wishes granted - in a way things work out as you actually wanted them. Know 1001 Nights stories? All the Arabian Nights stories with Genies in Bottles? With people finding that magic lamp, freeing the Genie, being thoughtless and greedy with their wishes and ending up learning a valuable lesson the really hard way?
That's where the wish spell is coming from.
It used to be all like that, but since D&D 3e, there are some safeguards, i.e. things that are safe to wish for, stuff that you can rely on being granted without fearing your words being used against you.
Most GM play it like that, too, I'd say. However, if you go beyond that, the rules of the wishing game change. Some GMs will be overly soft and let you get away with murder, some will be sadistic and try their level best to screw you over, and some will be between these extremes. Those guys will probably look at how greedy you were when you wished, and will adjust their sadism dial accordingly.
So be warned when wishing for kingdoms.
By the way: Andoran is that place already. They're very staunch enemies of slavery. Get slaves to Andoran and they're safe.
And halflings have the Bellflower Network, an organisation of halflings (mostly former slaves) who are freeing slaves and smuggling them out of the slaver-countries.
Things to wish for that GM's love:
I wish to own a magnificent keep worthy of the kings of old (translation: Give me a deed and a map, I have a keep to clean out).
I wish my legend to spread throughout the Inner Sea as a Tale to inspire (Translation: Hello, I'm your new Bard npc.)
Wishes you wish you hadnt made, but GMs love anyway:
I wish I had ____ just like a ___ (Poof: you become ___)
I wish for all my attributes to be razed. (GM lifts eyebrow, 'Did you say raised or razed'? Player confused responds, 'Uh, yes?')
Wishes my GM wishes I never wished:
Without changing myself, physically; I wish to be immortal.
I wish to find a Deck of Many Things.... (Bittersweet victory for a GM)
I wish to have all undead within a 1 mile radius to be unfailingly loyal to me alone... (This is 2E D&D, when wish had more punch. We were being attacked by Mummies after being randomly teleported somewhere. Turns out it was inside Mount Waterdeep)....
"I wish everything written down on this piece of paper to be true"
"I wish nobody else would get granted any wishes.""I wish you wouldn't grant this wish."
The wish spell in any ruleset can acomplish quite a bit, and the mroe outlandish, will grant you a percentage of it failing.
you want to screw over a gaming party.
use the wish spell to gain one or two of the following templates
Advanced
half dragon
half celsital
half fiend.using a w ish spell to take voer a kindom has a chance that a percentage that a number of the citizens will not be affected.
the best uses of wish, are those that affect your character directly.
sorry godhood is not one of them, I'm sure Razmir has tried it.
What would Advanced or Half Celestial actually do to me/grant me?
Cooperton - Fair enough. Halflings are half human, so I figured it made sense.
Oooh, the wishing game! I'll bite
1. I wish to be immortal, without changing my mental or physical form in any way other than what I can already do (meaning I should be able to keep my Were abilities).
Have imprisonment cast on you. That means your mental or physical form will never change again, in any way, since the spell will put you in stasis and dump you deep, deep underground.
2. I wish to have a deed for a relatively large plot of land already occupied by a once used but vacant Castle, that's in pristine condition and ready for me to occupy.
You'll have your Castle in the heart of the Worldwound. It's pristine because all the former occupants melted away from all the acid gas. That gas is still there.
3. I wish for the world to know that I am the Half-ling King.
Your wish is granted. All halfling-haters know who you are now. You just painted a large big bullseye on yourself.
4. I wish for anyone who opposes me to have 10 strength and dex damage.
You are thrown in jail for assaulting a royal servant. He's the trial lawyer opposing you in a minor lawsuit.
5. I wish for the world to know there is a safe haven for all good half-ling's.
There all know now that there is a safe haven for all good halflings.
They have no idea where that is, but they know it's there.
6. I wish all Half-ling's living within my Kingdom to be seen as the Dominant species of the world.
A mixture of envy and self-preservation instinct makes all other races turn on your kingdom's halflings. Sadly, the little buggers aren't actually dominant - they can't hope to withstand the rest of the world united in their need to remove the halfling threat.
7. I wish for anyone visiting my kingdom with good intentions to have a permanent boost of +2 to Will saves.
Sadly, the definition of what constitutes "good intentions" is so strict that no one ever benefits from this.
8. I wish for a 100 foot statue of myself to be placed at the peak of a mountain for everyone to see.
The unsupported statue topples, starting a landslide that buries several villages. The victims' next of kin seek revenge on the person whose pride caused them such grief.
9. I wish nobody can ever successfully cast death on me.
You're killed on the spot. You can't kill what's already dead.
10. I wish to have Angel wings when I pass the age of 100.
Several goodly gods send solar servants to kill you for your sick obsession with angel wings. They reclaim the wings of their brethren when they come kill you.
:D
Halflings are half human, so I figured it made sense.
Halflings are not half human. They're all halflings. The word halfling is probably a human invention, because they're half as big as a human.
However, they have no kinship to humans.
Lol, the only one I don't get is number 4, because how would the lawyer opposing me know that I did it, when I'm not physically attacking him? :p
Think of it as an aura that takes their Dex and Str down.
The rest are harsh, especially the first lol. How much detail do I actually need to go into to avoid the wishes turning sour?
Also, is it a good, bad or neutral genie who I'd be asking these wishes from? Or are they all pretty much evil and mess around with me for fun? Lol!
I'm guessing the only way to get around all of this is by being incredibly descriptive, writing a book around one wish haha!
Also, I didn't know there was already a Halfling safe haven, so that renders my plans on that front pretty useless. I also didn't know that Halflings weren't in relation to humans. I drew mine as a half sized human. Oh, and hey to you Mr.German helpful guy. :p
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First let me answer these:
1. Wish granted. But your stats are frozen, meaning level bonuses and other stat adjustments are impossible.
2. Yeah. World Wound or Mana Wastes. Populated by Golems/Constructs who keep it clean of all organic matter. Have fun with that.
3. Done. 18 Cha and a spectral crown floats over your head. Cant remove it or hide it unless you're dead.
4. Congratulations. You now have stat boosting aura. For any one who doesn't agree with any/everything you do. You now provide +10 to Str and Dex. Too include anyone in the party you're with. That's according to your wording.
5. Heralds and Bards everywhere sing of the Kingdom of Halflings located in the World Wound/ Mana Wastes (see wish 2). Now Halflings just have to survive getting there...
6. A poisonous bacteria now flows from the World Wound striking down ill or dead every race except halflings... Cue the new party to find the source of this contagion and stop it.
7. Done. Of course, with all the disease and just being in the World Wound, its a small comfort.
8. Wish granted. However good luck finding it as you never mentioned which mountain.
9. Wish granted. Say hello to the worlds only halfling lich.
10. This wish (along with wishes, 9, 4, 3 nullified wish one. you're no longer immortal.
Bottom Line; You just wished yourself Tar-Baphon....
Second: If you use wish outside of the exact parameters of the description the GM is allowed to go crazy making it come true. You can always wish to appear sitting atop the Star Stone. Become a god. Then the GM will write you out of the campaign.
Surely that's only if the Genie is bad? What if you roll a high number on your wish, will it come true as you want it to?
Also, for number 4 I worded it as anyone who opposes me gets a -10 on their Str and Dex. So that shouldn't put anything on me or my allies. :p
To be fair the only thing I really want whilst playing is my own small Kingdom to do good things/deeds for the world. Though Angel wings would be nice, and although people may think Angels look down on humanity and don't want to be compared to them, if anyone's watched Supernatural (TV Show), some Angels are actually good and respect humanity, so I wouldn't have said it would do something bad to me EVERY time. It's more like a 50/50 chance I'd have said (but that is in my opinion, and unfortunately it's the DM's opinion that counts).
The rest are things I'd like to achieve at End Game. So wishing myself on top of the Star Stone may be a good thing to do. :D
My character although neutral good, is a pretty good and loyal guy, so I don't want to do anything evil with wishes, just things that are likely to help him achieve greatness to become a well respected figure.
Still, he will defend himself and if someone poses a threat and acts badly towards him, if pushed too much he will fight them (whether their guard is up or not), and if they die, it's not his problem.
He's good to people, but if they're bad to him, mention slavery and put him down 24/7 he's likely to go a bit nuts at them.
Otherwise he's genuinely a fun loving guy, and likes to get on with everyone.
You know I really should brew myself some decent coffee and read through this. It's highly entertaining.
You remind me of a certain kind of player.
One whom I allowed himself to describe himself however he chose so long as the stats, numbers and all that were square, no biggie.
So this player was obsessed, absolutely obsessed with having funny items, things that made him look cool. The first of these items is what we dub the "buckler gauntlet". It was a buckler, that was it. No masterwork or anythign he jsut described it as, "A massive golden gauntlet covered in jewels and is very shiny and expensive looking".
So naturally being the poor Chaotic aligned characters they were they robbed the character in his sleep. Made an appraise check. Rolled pretty high. So I turned to the player and said.
"How much did it cost?"
He says, "Fifteen gold"
I turn back to the appraising player and go, "It's fake."
The buckler gauntlet was quickly hurled down a dark and deadly corridor in disgust never to be retrieved.
Then of course there was the cape that spread out like wings when he ran. That almost got ripped off his back to adorn the mad troll barbaian that claimed himself an arch magus so powerful it was simply not worth flexing his massive power over beating people over the head with his stick.
Then there was the banshee posession where he kept talkign into his wedding ring.
Than a character that had aparently no contorl over his own barbaric rage(in a group with not one but two barbarians).
Oh and the shining sword of light that shot out of his hand (effectively a regular costed longsword).
In the end I think he gave up trying to be shiny and awesome in my games because quite frankly the group and reality itself was rejecting his brand of awesome.
I think we finally found a game where he fit in Exalted.
Tark - Well, I'm actually saving up for everything else. :)
I'm not just saying I want this, this and this to be awesome, because chances are we (as a party) are likely to find a fair few good items as we go along.
As it is I have a ring of featherfall, a ring of jumping, masterwork chainmail and both my shortsword and bastard sword are masterwork.
I don't want things just like that. I want to work towards them, else there's little point in playing, but I just want to get angel wings or something for my character that represents power, without actually being a power gamer/character.
Something that can inspire all other halflings around the globe, and becoming immortal now or by the end of the game would just be a bonus, but as someone said already, maybe it's just better to enjoy things right now whilst I'm working towards certain goals.
My character's on a 7 or 8 for intelligence, so although he's not as intelligent as a good few people, he's not too stupid. His skill is in fighting, and being loyal and friendly whilst also working towards good things is only a plus.
Thing about fantasy - Anything can and should be able to happen, so I don't really get why it's so funny to do things out of the norm.
To me it's funny that people are so strongly against quirky characters. I mean if I wanted to play something where you just attack something, be nice to people, attack some more, be nice to a few more people, I might as well be living in the dark ages of the real world. Nothing to do but fight for money and banter for the sake of it, every day.
That's why I game, because it takes me away from the somewhat boring world of reality. ;)
I can't really understand people who take things so seriously that they stop you from trying to do new and fun things.
Caius - Would the leadership feat actually be worth doing anything with at all? I've basically been making a very stealthy and acrobatic TWW so that if I do get thrown into an arena or have an opportunity to sneak up on something (Monk player really hates me going off on my own and almost forces me to make my character stay with the group, and because he doesn't like the idea at all, he meta-games, making his character share the same opinion), I can do something about it.
I only have a +1 in Str right now, where as I have a +5 in Dex as I wanted a really fast and manoeuvrable character to get out of tough situations, but deal pretty decent damage where needed. I'm level 4 and have 22 AC with an ACP of 1.
Sorry, I should have been a little more direct with what I wanted to know.
What I meant to ask was is there a list of abilities being half Celestial could grant me?
If the DM wanted to be awkward, he could probably make me a pathetic half-celestial anyway.
Still, thanks a lot for all of the advice guys. There's certainly a lot for me to go through, and I'm pretty thankful you all warned me of the risks that come with certain wishes.
I'm guessing you don't roll a D20 at all, but instead just make your wish and be careful how you ask for it.
Caius - I replied in the post I did above this one. :)
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To me it's funny that people are so strongly against quirky characters.
Honestly?
You ever spent time talking to randoms?
Quirkiest thing about people be the way they think, the decisions they make and the lives they lead.
Met a lot of randoms. The ones who tried to differentiate themselves from others by adopting 'quirks' were the least interesting - like those people that want to be seen as zany or creative etc
Apparently it's a part of development - defining the self by attempting to distance the self from other selves.
Or, if you prefer: I am this because I am not this!
Then there were the ones who were simply themselves - awesome.
Personally I believe bells and whistles an original character do not make.
It's a cop out to stick a bunch of bells and whistles onto something and then call it something special.
::
Anyhoo - this isn't aimed at your character as much as a musing.
As long as all are having fun then all is well, aye?
GO GO GO!
:)
Quirkiest thing about people be the way they think, the decisions they make and the lives they lead.
Met a lot of randoms. The ones who tried to differentiate themselves from others by adopting 'quirks' were the least interesting - like those people that want to be seen as zany or creative etc
I dunno, I think everyone's different.
I mean I as a person like to be unique and haven't ever been one to follow crowds. I've got spiked hair very much like Noctis' from Final Fantasy Versus 13 if you're familiar with that? If not, here's a pic:
Some people consider it emo. I consider it japanese. I wear pretty tight clothes (super stretch skinny jeans and snug fitting tee's with loud and flashy print all over) and have a thing for high top shoes (I've got some red and white high top Nikes that look like they're from the 80's. Higher versions of Marty Mycfly's shoes from Back to the Future 2).
Nobody else dresses like me, but it's stylish and suits me. I also go out clubbing, do a lot of community work for people on the Capcom Europe gaming forums, am well respected there, have a lot of links in the gaming industry and get invited to all kinds of events, and can get on with pretty much every person going (no matter what their background is). I'm far from boring and loved by many, which was a strange feeling at first, as I had a rubbish childhood due to bullying everyday from the age of 4 to 16. So, if you were to put me into a game as a playable character, you could say there was a huge amount of character development with me. Like if I didn't go through all of that, I might have had no confidence for my whole entire life.
So although I see your point and understand how you're thinking, I feel it's too generalistic to say being quirky or different is boring. It all comes down to what kind of person you are, and how much character, flair and style you have. How you deal with things in certain situations and how you express yourself can say a lot about you, and I feel the same applies in the realm of fantasy, just under different circumstances.
I mean if I had things my way, in real life I'd be able to jump off of buildings and land on my feet perfectly fine without taking any damage, be able to use telekinesis, lifting whatever I want (including myself, enabling me to fly) and being strong enough to punch through tanks and buildings.
However, reality restricts you, where as a fantasy based game opens up a whole world of opportunities. ;)
This is something that will always reflect on my characters, but getting in the mind of my characters is what will give them all individual and unique ambitions or goals. No other character of mine ever wanted to become a god (or anything powerful for that matter). They just wanted to get their job done, or do what was on their mind at the time. :)
Steelfiredragon - Thanks very much. :)
Yea, it is sheerly for character development. Whether I become a god or immortal after the campaign is done and dusted isn't that big of a deal because the campaign won't be running at that point.
I'm just playing about with ways I can make my character eventually become a symbol of hope to all other Halflings (and maybe even other races), and Angel wings came to mind, as it's more or less a symbol of all that's holy and all powerful, whether I'm lawful or not.
They won't make me fight any better. They simply just look cool, will probably make people think twice when looking at me, and allow me to cover more ground quicker.
A kingdom is something I could either work towards (if the chance arises) or dare I say, wish for. If there are actually good genies and they can see that I'm doing it for a very good cause, they might allow it. I'd still have to put a lot of work in to actually make it happen, so it's more like asking for a helping hand, but if I can somehow get Angel wings, that'll be good enough to make me well known, and I plan to make the little guy a protector of his entire race.
If all fails, I'll just save up for those wings on a harness, so I can just attach them to myself under my clothes or something, making it look like they are actually growing out of me.
As for power gamers, I'm not really against them as they can be fun, but when you have a whole party of people playing properly, it gives a character a huge advantage over everyone else, so yea, it is pretty much all for character development.
Anyway, I wasn't having a go at anyone (though this is only a game, so there's no need to be hostile). It was just a simple question (or not so simple, judging from the amount of replies I got, haha) from a fairly new player, and I think I've got my answer now, so thanks a lot for all of the help.
I'll get talking to my DM on monday. :)
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One point to take into consideration:
Yes, In fantasy, anything could happen.
But:
For many players (I don't know your group so take this as a general concern and perhaps as a reason to inquire about this with your fellow players), part of the fun playing Pathfinder is that the story, their characters and the NPC's are all part of a more or less believable world.
If you, just because you think it would be cool for your character, try to get/become something that is at odds with this world (I want to play a giant talking Hamster with skis for feet (obviously exaggerated)) that takes part of this fun away (For me, the Lord of the Rings would have been ruined, if a squadron of giant robots stood guard at the gates of Mordor, because they wouldn't have fit in the world bresented so far).
The rules and the options the rules provide present something like a baseline to create characters that fit into that world (better, into the mood of the world, as even misfit characters 'fit'). Of course, you can add options and items as you like, but every player (and obviously the gm) should be fine with that as every option added tends to make it harder to merge them into a believable world.
My advise would be: look through ther rulebooks and try to imagine a cool, meaningful character within the options covered by the rules. Then, and only then ask the gm and possibly the other players if you can add features beyond the rules (if that is truly necessary for you to enjoy the game). Try to imerge yourself not only into your character, but in the world and story presented to you and played/influenced by you.
It can still be fun.
Bottomline: The game should be fun for all players. If your craving for strangeness ruins the fun for other players or the gm, you should talk about finding a consens.
Lol, the only one I don't get is number 4, because how would the lawyer opposing me know that I did it, when I'm not physically attacking him? :p
The government pays a diviner to find out.
Don't underestimate the viciousness of your GM if you're playing fast and loose with the wish spell ;-)
The rest are harsh, especially the first lol. How much detail do I actually need to go into to avoid the wishes turning sour?
Depends a whole lot on your GM and how he handles things. My personal policy is that the more you want, the nastier I get with the interpretations.
Also, is it a good, bad or neutral genie who I'd be asking these wishes from? Or are they all pretty much evil and mess around with me for fun? Lol!
Depends. Are you getting wishes granted by an actual Genie, or are you casting the spell (either as a wizard, or from an item that has wishes, like the ring of wishes)
If it's an actual genie (or other supernatural creature that can grant wishes), it depends on the genie. There are good and evil genies.
If it's the spell, and the interpretation lies with "magic itself", then it's totally up to the GM again.
Not that good genies will totally grant you everything. They need to be careful with their wishcraft, too. GO too far and reality is going to be shredded.
I'm guessing the only way to get around all of this is by being incredibly descriptive, writing a book around one wish haha!
The best way is actually being modest and talking to the GM.
Also, I didn't know there was already a Halfling safe haven, so that renders my plans on that front pretty useless. I also didn't know that Halflings weren't in relation to humans. I drew mine as a half sized human.
Nope. Might be half as big, but they're not pint-sized humans. They're their own race, with slightly pointy ears and hairy feet.
Surely that's only if the Genie is bad? What if you roll a high number on your wish, will it come true as you want it to?
No rolling involved really. There is no "wish check". Unless the GM says so.
To be fair the only thing I really want whilst playing is my own small Kingdom to do good things/deeds for the world.
That really is way beyond the limits of the LoF AP. It IS the Kingmaker AP, though. There, you get to create your own realm in the River Kingdoms.
Of course, you also have to defend it.
The rest are things I'd like to achieve at End Game. So wishing myself on top of the Star Stone may be a good thing to do. :D
Or not. We don't know what the Test actually is. Maybe you'll die when you touch it without first finishing the tests. In fact, I'd bet you would.
The bottomline is that "wish" has a material cost of 25000gp. Any wish that could be accomplished with that amount of gold you can expect to work out fine.
Wishing for a giant statue of yourself on a mountain is probably do-able for 25000. Remember also, that as a baseline, a single wish can grant you a single +1 inherent (non-stacking) bonus to one stat. That is not a particularly grand wish in the scheme of things, compared to your wish list.
Here is a reasonable GM's (my guess) interpretation of your wishes:
1. priceless - wish perverted beyond all measure of corruption
2. the "relatively" is key here. for 25000 you might get a nice-ish house in a decent district in a well-to-do city (a mansion in a good area would cost about 80000 to 160,000)
3. probably granted within reason; at least a 25000gp PR campaign can spread your name across the land and neighbouring nations is possible
4. this could be accomplished by granting the spell-like ability to cast a quickened ray of enfeeblement & touch of idiocy at will. Just the quickened ray of enfeeblement needs to be at caster level 14 and would be a 5th level spell equivalent. 5 x 14 x 2000 = 140,000gp - add another 140,000 for the touch of idiocy. Double it to make it slotless and another 50% or so to make it innate and you end up with 420,000gp - this will be perverted beyond all recognition
5. similar to 3, a 25000gp PR campaign can happen - at least across the land and in neighboring nations you can expect to see word to reach
6. priceless - or near priceless - expect very significant corruption of the wish
7. could be handled as a form of reduced hallowed (reduced in terms of effect) - but the area expanded to cover the whole kingdom. if the "kingdom" is limited to the "mansion" in 2 then it could maybe work. grants "protection from evil" for people in the area of effect. not what you wanted, but a fair interpretation
8. do-able. construction, materials, remoteness/grandness of location, commission to artistic greatness - all granted to a total sum of 25000
9. limited possibility is having a permanent death ward cast on you, that would fall into 25000 limit
10. wishing for angel-like wings might be able to work, if handled like winged boots (16000) but made as a slot-less item (doubles cost to 32000) then made permanent and intrinsic on you (increase to 48000) then reduce the number of uses per day from 3 to 1 or maybe 2 (reduce overall to less than 25000)
Captain Cortez,
I'd really agree with everyone else here about the bastard sword thing. I'd consider picking up another shortsword, or perhaps some kukri (kukri are 1d4, 18-20/x2, slashing) and specializing in those instead.
The biggest reason is because bastard swords just aren't very good. They're pretty bad in fact. You need a feat to wield them one handed, but they're on +1 average damage over a longsword.
In fact, at this point, you'd probably be better off fighting with a staff, since it's a 2 handed (Power Attack + Str * 1.5) double weapon (allows you to fight as if dual-wielding with light-weapon penalties), and it would be a weapon slaves could get easily (it's a free stick).
Since I think you said you were a Fighter, I'd advise picking up the Weapon Focus/Specialization line in your favorite weapon, as well as weapon training. If you chose Weapon Focus, Specialization, Greater Focus, Greater Specialization (Staff), Weapon Training in a group with Staffs, Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved TWF, Greater TWF, Power Attack, Two-Weapon Rend, etc, you'd get something about like this at high levels.
Attack Routine (Assumes 30 Str, +5 Weapon, haste): +41/+41/+41/+36/+36/+31/+31/+26/+26
Damage Routine: 1d6+29 per hit.
With Power Attack (-6 to Hit): 1d6+47 / hit.
Well, I think waiting to see if a Good Genie comes along would be the best and probably safest option, so although I could test things with the Sorcerer (if he grabs the 9th level Wish spell), I think I'd rather do it in a way that's likely to have more success.
Also, depending on how many wishes I get, I'd use one of those wishes to free the Genie from his life of wish granting. In fact I'd probably just ask for two things from him/her, and on the third wish (assuming I might be able to get three), I'd grant him/her their freedom.
Feytharn - Taking into account everything you've suggested to me, I think I'll have to have a chat with the DM tomorrow, asking him what goals would fit into the campaign right now, and what kind of things he'd allow if I got the chance to wish for things.
Lorekeeper - Providing I go along with my above ideas on the wishing front, I guess I'll just have to rework what I'm asking for. I don't want it to be gamebreaking. ;)
Ashiel - I don't think I'll be getting speed weapons now, as the costs for them are very high, but I've just seen the Boots of Speed, so if possible I'll be getting them to give me an extra attack on top of what I can already do.
Also, I really like the Bastard Sword idea, but wondered if I took those feats you listed (most of which I was going to take anyway), what would my attack bonus actually turn into? I know with the Kukri you said the first few attacks could get up to +41 on top of what you roll, but just wondered how different the scores would be whilst wielding two Bastard Swords.
In regard to my stats, I doubt I'll reach 30 Strength. These are my current stats:
Str: 13
Con: 14
Dex: 20
Int: 7
Wis: 10
Cha: 9
I'm currently level 4, so put my 1 point into Strength which took it up to 13 from 12. This means if I do reach level 20, I'll have 17 Strength due to the fact I'm going all Strength now, and I'll be saving up for the belt of a Belt of Physical Perfection which could take it up to 23, but I don't see how I could get my Strength any higher than that. Although, I would have the Were-Leopard powers on top of that, though I have no idea how much that would boost me up by.
Steel - I do like the idea of being Half Celestial, but I'll have to see what the DM thinks about the idea. Advanced gives me too much I feel, where as being Half Celestial is a fairly powerful boost, but not too powerful.
Raises finger to say something, then lowers it, thinking better of it Never Mind. Have fun.
Let me guess, you're wondering why I'm a fighter with lower Intelligence and only +1 Strength? :p
It's because I was going for a more Dextrous character. I prefer being able to hit more, over hitting now and again and dealing mass damage when I finally do manage to hit.
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Have you even read the rules? Unless you take weapon finesse, and even then, you only use your dexterity bonus to attacks with LIGHT weapons...all other weapons use strength bonus for attack and damage.
AS far as intelligence goes, it's ok...playing a dumb fighter is fine, as long as you don't want him to be a master tactician or some such, or a great leader seeing that your character is not very charismatic.
Have you even read the rules? Unless you take weapon finesse, and even then, you only use your dexterity bonus to attacks with LIGHT weapons...all other weapons use strength bonus for attack and damage.
AS far as intelligence goes, it's ok...playing a dumb fighter is fine, as long as you don't want him to be a master tactician or some such, or a great leader seeing that your character is not very charismatic.
Yea, I've read a good amount of the rules, and I know that, and I've told you about 3 times so far that Two Weapon Warrior allows any one handed weapon to be considered as a light weapon, therefore allowing me to use my Weapon Finesse in my off hand still. ;)
This is for you, so hopefully now you can believe me instead of thinking I know nothing:
Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3. - Taken from APG.
My character isn't very Charismatic because apparently Charisma covers your looks as well, and my guy has three massive scars going down one side of his face where a leopard attacked him.
He's no Einstein but he's intelligent enough to know how to think and interact with people without coming across as a complete idiot. :p
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You say you are 4th level...this is two weapon warrior ability that you have at the moment
Defensive Flurry (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd. This ability replaces armor training 1 and 2.
And you misinterpret the rules there...it only counts as a light weapon for purposes of two weapon fighting, not weapon finesse. here's the text:
Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.
11th level ability.
7 intelligence is pretty stupid...somewhere around 70-80 IQ..there is a thread about stat dumping where it is pretty well explained...i think it is in pathfinder general discussion
Charisma is your force of personality, your self so to speak. Your ability to influence others...looks are a minor part of the ability. In my games, the two are not even related...players decide how good looking their characters are depending on their physical abilities.
Bah. apparently we are not permitted to post pictures in forum posts!
I saw the title of the thread and thought of this..
And you misinterpret the rules there...it only counts as a light weapon for purposes of two weapon fighting, not weapon finesse. here's the text:
Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Where does it say it's treated for purposes as two weapon fighting and not weapon finesse? It doesn't say either.
It just says you are allowed to use any one handed weapon as if it were a light weapon. Therefore, I can swing and use a Bastard Sword as if it were a light weapon, meaning I can use Weapon Finesse with it.
My DM said exactly the same thing as me. :)
11th level ability.
7 intelligence is pretty stupid...somewhere around 70-80 IQ..there is a thread about stat dumping where it is pretty well explained...i think it is in pathfinder general discussion
Charisma is your force of personality, your self so to speak. Your ability to influence others...looks are a minor part of the ability. In my games, the two are not even related...players decide how good looking their characters are depending on their physical abilities.
I wasn't told this, but I guess I know for future reference then. My character is actually not bad looking (apart from the scar) and to me he's intelligent enough to be able to think and interact fine, but it's just combat where his intelligence lacks, so he sticks to a specific fighting style. :)
Mr.Quick - All I have to say to that is: XD
@Captain Cortez:
You're in the lucky position that your GM agrees with your reading regarding finessing the bastard sword. This is not a given and I haven't heard a final ruling on it - but the explanatory phrase "with the normal light weapon penalties" to me means that you're allowed to wield the bastard sword off-hand without incurring the normal penalty but nothing else (i.e. this does not extend to you using finesse on the bastard sword). I'd say the RAI is not to allow finessing and the RAW is unclear.
@Captain Cortez:
You're in the lucky position that your GM agrees with your reading regarding finessing the bastard sword. This is not a given and I haven't heard a final ruling on it - but the explanatory phrase "with the normal light weapon penalties" to me means that you're allowed to wield the bastard sword off-hand without incurring the normal penalty but nothing else (i.e. this does not extend to you using finesse on the bastard sword). I'd say the RAI is not to allow finessing and the RAW is unclear.
Hmm, but Paizo haven't given any official word on it?
The trouble with the description is that it's very ambiguous. I mean I see it as you can finesse the weapon because it says to treat it as a light weapon, but the text doesn't rule out either of our theories. :/
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Not as far as i know, but as you say, it can be taken either way. But, there is common sense to be considered. A bastard sword is about 1.2 meters long (around 4 feet) and it weighs around 1.5 kilograms Essentially around 3-4 pounds. Trust me, there is no way anybody could use it dexterously...it's just too heavy and bulky. I know that a small weapon is lighter by half, but a halfling is also half the size of a human. So it works there too.
Not as far as i know, but as you say, it can be taken either way. But, there is common sense to be considered. A bastard sword is about 1.2 meters long (around 4 feet) and it weighs around 1.5 kilograms Essentially around 3-4 pounds. Trust me, there is no way anybody could use it dexterously...it's just too heavy and bulky. I know that a small weapon is lighter by half, but a halfling is also half the size of a human. So it works there too.
I don't really know though. I agree with what you're saying, but if you were a dual wielder and was a capable two weapon fighter with two bastard swords, you'd still be able to lunge and be quick with your off hand, but you;d just be better with your primary hand. Like, if you're right handed, anything you do with your right hand will be better than what you can do with your left unless you're ambidextrous, in which case it wouldn't matter.
If you can use your body for momentum as well as your arms to swing in all kinds of directions, I don't see why you couldn't use both arms as Dex weapons. I mean people who use two weapons have to be highly skilled and very fast. Strength doesn't usually come into it when avoiding hits, or getting in as many hits as you can. It's more of a case of making very fast and fluid actions. So I guess this is something Paizo really need to clean up.
Also, bit of a random question, but how did you get the crown next to your name? Did you find a genie and wish for it? :p
I agree with Hama, the rule of cool is all swell - but if you think about it, being able to wield a large sword in your offhand finesse-style is less about cool and more about dredging all the numbers to be in your favor.
Besides. If you just drop the bastard sword and use the (finessable) sawtooth saber instead, then you have a 1d8 weapon that you can finesse which is really close to the 1d10 bastard sword - and definitely no rules conflict. In fact, you get to use the lesser penalty from improved balance.
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I never noticed the crown before untill you pointed it out. I have no idea what it is. If someone knows, I'd love to know.
Ok, don't believe me? Find two pieces of rebar. Approx two feet long and try swinging them. Not easy?
Bastard sword is a primarily two-handed weapon. It can be used as one handed with special training, and to be honest, a person would have to be really strong to swing a heavy, long piece of steel around with one hand. Being a two weapon warrior means that if you use two weapons, they won't impede each other much and you will hit with them. I'm sorry to say, but Pathfinder wasn't made with anime in mind. Exalted is a good system for that.
I agree with Hama, the rule of cool is all swell - but if you think about it, being able to wield a large sword in your offhand finesse-style is less about cool and more about dredging all the numbers to be in your favor.
Besides. If you just drop the bastard sword and use the (finessable) sawtooth saber instead, then you have a 1d8 weapon that you can finesse which is really close to the 1d10 bastard sword - and definitely no rules conflict. In fact, you get to use the lesser penalty from improved balance.
Thing is, if I'm a Were creature then I should have more strength to hold things anyway, so I guess I could still go through with it, although I am really tempted to get a Sun Blade on top of the secondary Bastard Sword.
Only really gone with pretty strong weapons as I'm worried about damage reduction later on. I mean what's the point in hitting if you can't surpass that? :/
Hama - Lol, maybe I'm used to too much animé then. Thing is I've gone through I think 3 different weapons for my off hand now, and it's just getting silly. The plan is to get a bastard sword to allow myself to use weapon specialization Bastard Sword etc, so it works for both weapons. Though I guess I could make it a magic weapon, meaning it should weigh almost nothing? I've had a +1 one handed Hammer I found, a rapier, and am now using my Fathers Short Sword, and Bastard Sword was my next option, though depending on what this saw weapon is classed as, I might change the bastard sword for that, just so it makes a little more sense.
Also yea, a few people have a little picture next to their names. Maybe it's just to do with post count? :/
Strength, other modifiers like Power attack and higher weapon enhancement bonuses are your solutions to penetrating DR, not the tiny differences between various weapons' damage di(c)e.