| Ravingdork |
| 6 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Improved Damage (Ex): One of the eidolon's natural attacks is particularly deadly. Select one natural attack form and increase the damage die type by one step. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack.
So, if I have a huge eidolon with a 1d8 claw attack, and I take the improved damage evolution for its claw attack, would it be 2d6 damage (damage size increase), or would it be 1d10 damage (die type increase)?
What if I have a huge eidolon with a tail slap attack, the improved damage evolution, AND the Improved Natural Attack monster feat?
Also, was it ever answered if you had to take this per attack of a like kind? For example, I have 2 claw attacks, do I need to take this evolution twice to effect both of them? Or will once suffice?
| HaraldKlak |
Improved Damage (Ex): One of the eidolon's natural attacks is particularly deadly. Select one natural attack form and increase the damage die type by one step. This evolution can be selected more than once. Its effects do not stack. Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack.
So, if I have a huge eidolon with a 1d8 claw attack, and I take the improved damage evolution for its claw attack, would it be 2d6 damage (damage size increase), or would it be 1d10 damage (die type increase)?
What if I have a huge eidolon with a tail slap attack, the improved damage evolution, AND the Improved Natural Attack monster feat?
Also, was it ever answered if you had to take this per attack of a like kind? For example, I have 2 claw attacks, do I need to take this evolution twice to effect both of them? Or will once suffice?
1) I would say that it becomes 2d6. It is the step from a medium to a large weapon, or size increase as you mention. It it just a lot more simple to follow the same scale for the different increases (otherwise you would end up with different damage, whether you applied one increase before the other.
2) I remember some dev comment that INA wasn't supposed to be a stacking choice for the Eidolon, but I don't have a reference. At the end of the day whether or not to allow a monster feat is the GM's choice.
3) I am not sure if there has been anything official. But since the evolution states "one natural attack form", I would say that it applies to 2 claws, just as one bite.
I don't know whether it should apply if you have multiple of the same form of natural attack (4 claws, 2 bites, etc.).
thorian
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The feat states it improves the damage die type by one step. That is what it does. So, 1d8 becomes 1d10.
The creature may add a feat in the order most beneficial to them. This was in the 3.5 FAQ under the practiced spellcaster feat. Therefore, you can decide which order you want to apply the feats for the greatest benefit.
For 1d8 if you apply Improved Damage then INA, you get 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 2d8.
For 1d8 if you apply INA then Improved Damage, you get 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 2d8.
For 1d6 if you apply Improved Damage then INA, you get 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6.
For 1d6 if you apply INA then Improved Damage, you get 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10.
Most of the time, it is pretty close.
Improved Damage states it works on "one natural attack form" but at the end of the description, it states "Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack." I'd say this is ambiguous. To me, I'd go with one form like claws, so if you have 4 claw attacks, it would apply to all of them.
| Ravingdork |
The feat states it improves the damage die type by one step. That is what it does. So, 1d8 becomes 1d10.
The creature may add a feat in the order most beneficial to them. This was in the 3.5 FAQ under the practiced spellcaster feat. Therefore, you can decide which order you want to apply the feats for the greatest benefit.
For 1d8 if you apply Improved Damage then INA, you get 1d8 -> 1d10 -> 2d8.
For 1d8 if you apply INA then Improved Damage, you get 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 2d8.For 1d6 if you apply Improved Damage then INA, you get 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 2d6.
For 1d6 if you apply INA then Improved Damage, you get 1d6 -> 1d8 -> 1d10.Most of the time, it is pretty close.
Improved Damage states it works on "one natural attack form" but at the end of the description, it states "Each time an eidolon selects this evolution, it applies to a different natural attack." I'd say this is ambiguous. To me, I'd go with one form like claws, so if you have 4 claw attacks, it would apply to all of them.
Yeah, but that goes against everything that the Paizo designers have stated in the past (namely that order doesn't matter, two characters built in two different orders would end up looking the same). It's part of everything Pathfinder being retroactive (like intelligence increases to skills), unlike v3.5
| Ravingdork |
*bump*
Still looking for official input on this one.
Got a player with an eidolon whose damage we don't know how to calculate.
Does his large eidolon's claws and bite go up to 1d10 damage with the Improved Damage evolution?
| MSW |
Improved Damage evolution bumps up the damage die for 1 natural attack type. So to get it from both the claws and the bite you'd have to take it twice.
Improved Damage [claws]
Improved Damage [bite]
After you have it, it doesn't matter how many claw attacks you have, the damage die increase applies to all of those for the named natural attack you bought it for.
In D&D and Pathfinder the game uses these dice:
d4 > d6 > d8 > d10 > d12 > d20
Find what the natural attack damage dice is, and then go up to the next larger one. So a 1d4 claw becomes a 1d6 claw. A 1d8 slam becomes a 1d10 slam.
If you are really tweaking and are now going to take the monster feat Improved Natural Attack, it gets applied after the evolution.
Evolutions are part of the creature's form, Feats are training.