First time poster, haven't been lurking long as I mostly frequent GitP.com for my forum of choice. But as I was looking over the Magus and the Gunslinger, inspiration struck and as this is the place for all things Pathfinder, I decided I would share my product with all of you who frequent here.
So here it is, without further ado, the Gun Magus. By blending arcane pool abilities with grit, this class intends on being heavy ranged support and would fill the roll of the striker. Click the link below to GoogleDocs to see the class as apparently we do not have tables or the like here. Enjoy and of course, PEACH!
Let me know what you think!
-X
very well done. i absolutely love it. ive been hoping to get a gun mage type class (core, archetype, prestige, idc) and you did a very nice job on it.
Iron Kingdoms has something similar.
i knew that, but i can never find the book. :(
Ultimate combat will have one in it... if you can wait until Gencon.
Ok, I didn't even read all of this yet. d10 HD and full bab? But almost full caster progression. That seems a bit too powerful. It just seems to make the gunslinger even stronger, without hindering the magus in the slightest bit. Doesn't seem balanced.
Well, d10/full BAB go hand in hand in this system, and while I actually would have opted for a lower hit die for the BAB (which is what I was going for), it was one or the other. Eldritch Knight in the Core book does exactly this too.
Knocking it down to d8 and 3/4 BAB wouldn't hamstring it, but then... hmmm, maybe dump a couple more caster levels or make it more intensive gunslinger wise to enter; either way it would drop some caster levels and thus limit what sorts of spells it can access. Stopping it from getting at least to CL 16 would be bad, wrong even, as magus spells don't wreck the game and if there is no way you can get top spells out of it, no one will take it in my experience. I find it better to err on slightly stronger than weaker; easier to nerf than to boost (at least for me).
But that leads to the eternal question: Do I tighten up the entry fee, reduce caster levels, or reduce the BAB/Hit Die?
-X
No other suggestions? I've got a couple votes towards it being okay and one saying its unbalanced and I was curious if anyone had any other suggestions or comments regarding this class before I release it into my game this weekend.
Again, thank you to all the above posters for your kind words and critique, just fishing for a little more critique on it before I use it in my game. Thanks!
-X
EDIT: Made some alterations to the class, such as increasing the spell level to get into the class to 2nd level, and some clarifications to the class abilities (specifically bonus feats and gun arcana, as well as tempest revolver).
I've made my own Gun Mage. I do need someone to play test it though. If you give me your email I could send it to you.
I've made my own Gun Mage. I do need someone to play test it though. If you give me your email I could send it to you.
Umm, no thanks. I want to use my own, not somebody else's work. Feedback on my work would be preferable to advertisement of your own.
-X
I think this looks awesome, and you may have just created a secret order in my homebrew world ;)
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I've made my own Gun Mage. I do need someone to play test it though. If you give me your email I could send it to you.
I'd love to check out your version as well. Hitting my players with TWO versions of the same idea sounds.... well, let's just say I'm grinning ear-to-ear :D
Email: code name duck fin @ gmail . com
Take out the spaces :)
/threadjack
ErrantX, I haven't read through yours yet, but I intend to use it as well. I'll pop up some thoughts on it, when I get around to reading.
Thanks all :)
I think this looks awesome, and you may have just created a secret order in my homebrew world ;)
That's pretty awesome, lemme know what you get from it (organization or playtest wise) as the data would be appreciated. I would love to see the secret order written up here :)
@Austin Morgan:
Cool, let me know your thoughts on it, if I have to weaken it or boost it or whatever. Or if you think of new gun arcana.
-X
The Gun Mage was available as a free preview. The link will take you to a copy.
I love your take on the Gun Magus. I am going to make a base class using it for a Wizards & Gunslingers homebrew game I'm working on.
Well, d10/full BAB go hand in hand in this system, and while I actually would have opted for a lower hit die for the BAB (which is what I was going for), it was one or the other. Eldritch Knight in the Core book does exactly this too.
Eldritch Knight basically does not get class abilities. Keep in mind that you could in theory dip 2 levels into Magus in order to qualify for your Gun Magus PrC, then take 6 levels Wizard/2 levels Gunslinger, and use the Gun Magus as a Strictly Better option than the Eldritch Knight. (Or, better yet, 3 levels Magus for broad study, and 5 levels Wizard?) I dunno--just seems a bit much in terms of 9/10 spellcasting, new class abilities at every level, and full BAB.
One thing you could do would be to give d8 HD/.75 BAB, but add a class feature that counts the Gun Magus's class level as his base attack bonus for spellcombat(/spellstrike?) with firearms or something similar (a la monk's flurry of blows).
And here's my armchair feedback on your class abilities. Take it with a grain of salt as I haven't playtested.
Arcane Pool
I like the note on being able to magically augment pistols as though they were melee weapons.
Spell Shot
I would get rid of the progression of spell combat. The concentration boosts seem less exciting when you consider that the Gun Magus focuses more on range, and since they're fairly small to begin with losing them isn't a big deal. As for spell combat with a gun... I think spellstrike with a gun is more flavorful (or at least, fits "spell shot" better).
Grit
Just to confirm: this does not grant the Gun Magus any gunslinger deeds he did not already possess, correct? Also, I'm not sure I like changing grit to Intelligence. Sure, it reduces "MAD" a bit, but at the cost of the flavor of grit. Instead of changing the ability score for grit, why not add an option to burn arcane pool points on deeds?
Gun Arcana
I like most of the options. One thing I'm not digging is how you can select gun arcana if you return to just being a magus. Oh, and for spell bullet, the rules text says it needs to be a touch or ranged touch spell, but then you have additional rules text explaining how to handle AoE spells--can AoE spells be cast with spell bullet or not?
Arcane Deed
I like metamagic grit.
I don't get spontaneous grit, flavor/fluffwise. How is the grit spontaneous?
Gun Training [pistols]
I would make this an entry requirement for the PrC (i.e. 4th level gunslinger class ability), especially since so many Gun Magus abilities revolve around pistols. And then I would remove this ability entirely.
I know the gunslinger class ability doesn't add an attack bonus, and I know this ability improves to include Int, but it just seems like icing on an already-delicious cake. People can take Weapon Focus if they want... or you can give it to them as a bonus feat if you must. Int to damage just seems excessive—you already have huge damage output potential.
Tempest Gunner
Somehow I don't like that it costs both grit and arcane points. It makes sense flavorwise but it's like you've got 2 mana pools and a spell that costs different amounts of mana from each one. Also, I take it you mean for this ability to hit any number of creatures within the first range increment? As written right now, it allows the Gun Magus to make a single attack at any creature within that range increment: so, one attack against one creature.
Sorry if the above seems too critical--I really like what you've done and was just looking for ways to improve :)
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Well, d10/full BAB go hand in hand in this system, and while I actually would have opted for a lower hit die for the BAB (which is what I was going for), it was one or the other. Eldritch Knight in the Core book does exactly this too.Eldritch Knight basically does not get class abilities. Keep in mind that you could in theory dip 2 levels into Magus in order to qualify for your Gun Magus PrC, then take 6 levels Wizard/2 levels Gunslinger, and use the Gun Magus as a Strictly Better option than the Eldritch Knight. (Or, better yet, 3 levels Magus for broad study, and 5 levels Wizard?) I dunno--just seems a bit much in terms of 9/10 spellcasting, new class abilities at every level, and full BAB.
One thing you could do would be to give d8 HD/.75 BAB, but add a class feature that counts the Gun Magus's class level as his base attack bonus for spellcombat(/spellstrike?) with firearms or something similar (a la monk's flurry of blows).
And here's my armchair feedback on your class abilities. Take it with a grain of salt as I haven't playtested.
Arcane Pool
I like the note on being able to magically augment pistols as though they were melee weapons.Spell Shot
I would get rid of the progression of spell combat. The concentration boosts seem less exciting when you consider that the Gun Magus focuses more on range, and since they're fairly small to begin with losing them isn't a big deal. As for spell combat with a gun... I think spellstrike with a gun is more flavorful (or at least, fits "spell shot" better).Grit
Just to confirm: this does not grant the Gun Magus any gunslinger deeds he did not already possess, correct? Also, I'm not sure I like changing grit to Intelligence. Sure, it reduces "MAD" a bit, but at the cost of the flavor of grit. Instead of changing the ability score for grit, why not add an option to burn arcane pool points on deeds?Gun Arcana
I like most of the options. One thing I'm not digging is how you can select gun...
I agree with most of what was said here for sure. Here are my thoughts:
1. Gun Arcana should definitely be restricted to Gun Magus levels only.
2. The Grit ability should still use Wisdom, but now get a boost from Int, maybe +1/2 the character's Int bonus or something like that. Using grit points from arcana pool doesn't make much sense to me.
3. Spell Combat progression should definitely stay, and I like your take on it.
4. AoE spells should definitely not be included in the Gun Arcana ability. I think having this only work with Touch or Ranged Touch spells goes very well with the fact that sometimes you can use the opponent's touch AC with a bullet. This also separates the ability from the Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrow ability, which ONLY works with area of effect spells.
5. Tempest Gunner needs fixed to include enemies in a cone instead of all enemies in the range increment, and instead of using up tons of bullets you could have it turn into a spray of magical bullets that split off from the first (using a single attack roll for all attacks), hitting each enemy in the cone but not targeting allies. The extra 2d6 damage seems low to me, but if you're hitting a bunch of enemies I guess it's okay. Is there any way to make it scale with total character level?
Just ran the numbers, and a power gamer could totally turn this thing into a monster.
Taking:
6 wizard,
3 magus (taking broad study arcana),
1 gunslinger,
10 gun magus
You end up with:
BAB +16
8th level spells
Spell combat with wizard spells
If you instead take only magus levels instead of wizard, you gain +1 more BAB and 6th level spells. With guns (which attack touch AC), you're always going to be better with the wizard combo, slinging higher level spells.
The only real loss would be medium armor casting.
Note: I am not a power gamer trying to kill the fun. I'm just warning you, since this is likely not your intent in the prestige class.
I'd suggest lesser spellcasting (something in-line with the rage prophet, maybe?) to help alleviate this.
Overall, it's very cool, though. I'm thinking of adapting it to an archetype for the magus itself. Would you mind?
...Catch Phrase,
-Chris
Been a little while! I see some more interest fell upon this class and I am embarrassed to say I didn't notice it! That being said, I've read ths comments here and I've made some changes to the gun magus class based on some of the suggestions here and my own thoughts. Please take a look everyone and lemme know what you think! (link in OP is still valid but reposting here as well)
@Xorial: Did you get around to making that class? If so, I'd love to see it.
@Flak and cartmanbeck: Thank you for the critique and ideas, they are most helpful!
@Gravefiller613: If you did get a chance to play test this, how'd it go?
@Christopher Delvo: By all means, I'd love to see it.
-X