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The question: Does Selective Spell work with a spell modified by Lingering Spell? If so, does movement inside of the lingering spell end the protection of Selective spell?
In example, lets use fireball. I hurl a lingering fireball at a mob of enemies, selecting 3 or more allies that aren't affected by the spell. Allies then charge into the lingering fireball cloud and smack around the enemies within the spell, taking 5 foot steps back in order to gain concealment in the cloud and force enemies to move into another square of the lingering spell to take damage from that spell again for entering the area of the spell once more, do something on their turn without moving, or delay until my turn ends and the fog of fire dissipates.
Does this work the way I think it does?
If so, I am going to have tremendous fun with lingering spell and a selective metamagic rod.
Advanced Feats[/b]]
You spell clings to existence, slowly fading from the world.Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn. Those already in the area suffer no additional harm, but other creatures or objects entering the area are subject to its effects. A lingering spell with a visual manifestation obscures vision, providing concealment (20% miss chance) beyond 5 feet and total concealment (50% miss chance) beyond 20 feet.
A lingering spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Advanced Feats[/b]]
Your allies need not fear friendly fire.Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). [u]These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.[/u] A selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Spells that do not have an area of effect do not benefit from this feat.
Fireball
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a ball of bat guano and sulfur)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.
You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.
The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
The selective spell feat only works on instantaneous spells. The lingering metamagic feat make it stay around. The duration is not officially changed though. I guess it is time to hit the FAQ button.
I would allow it to work.
FAQ'd
I have a fireball wizard in mind that may use this... It's not broken in the least, so I hope it works!
The question: Does Selective Spell work with a spell modified by Lingering Spell? If so, does movement inside of the lingering spell end the protection of Selective spell?
In example, lets use fireball. I hurl a lingering fireball at a mob of enemies, selecting 3 or more allies that aren't affected by the spell. Allies then charge into the lingering fireball cloud and smack around the enemies within the spell, taking 5 foot steps back in order to gain concealment in the cloud and force enemies to move into another square of the lingering spell to take damage from that spell again for entering the area of the spell once more, do something on their turn without moving, or delay until my turn ends and the fog of fire dissipates.
Does this work the way I think it does?
In you example, I see 2 problems:
1) depending on how far in the cloud, your enemies are your friends aren't going to be able to charge them because of the total concealment.If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.
2) you can not take a 5ft step after making a charge action.
you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance
You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge
I would also have to say that based on the wording of Lingering Spell just making the enemy move 5ft does not change the fact that they where already in the spell area of effect.
While reading the two meta magic feats, particularly Selective Spell I can see a problem with your plan.
When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type. These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell. Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.
Your friends would have to already be in the area of effect to be the targets of the selective feat, otherwise it is a waste your time.
As to using Selective Spell on a spell modified by Lingering Spell, I can't answer the viability of that.
The selective spell feat only works on instantaneous spells. The lingering metamagic feat make it stay around. The duration is not officially changed though. I guess it is time to hit the FAQ button.
I would allow it to work.
Selective Spell does not require that the spell be instantaneous, only that it have an AoE. RAW, your allies can attack even with a charge. Selective Spell doesn't mean that the selected allies aren't inside the AoE of the spell, just that they are not effected by it.
These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.
If the spell does it, your friends are immune to it. the targets are excluded from the spell's effects, not the space the targets are occupying.
Now, as to Fireball itself, there is no vision impairment listed for the spell, so there is no penalty to vision, it only implies that it's a bright flash. This part could be ruled by your GM, as it is logical, but your friends would still be excluded from the vision impairment (as it's now an effect of the spell).
Fog Cloud specifically blocks vision, so any creature selectively removed from the AoE would not have his vision blocked.
Selective Spell does not require that the spell be instantaneous, only that it have an AoE. RAW, it works.The selective spell feat only works on instantaneous spells. The lingering metamagic feat make it stay around. The duration is not officially changed though. I guess it is time to hit the FAQ button.
I would allow it to work.
Actually it does by the errata
Pages 168–169—In the Selective Spell feat, in the
Benefit section, in the first paragraph, in the first
sentence, change “with an area effect, you can” to
“with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous,
you can.” In the second paragraph of that section,
change “do not have an area of effect do not” to “do not
have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous
do not.”
It is updated on the pfsrd site.
Selective Spell (Metamagic)
Your allies need not fear friendly fire.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.
Level Increase: +1 (a selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)
Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.
Selective Spell does not require that the spell be instantaneous, only that it have an AoE. RAW, it works.The selective spell feat only works on instantaneous spells. The lingering metamagic feat make it stay around. The duration is not officially changed though. I guess it is time to hit the FAQ button.
I would allow it to work.
Actually it does by the errata
Pages 168–169—In the Selective Spell feat, in the
Benefit section, in the first paragraph, in the first
sentence, change “with an area effect, you can” to
“with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous,
you can.” In the second paragraph of that section,
change “do not have an area of effect do not” to “do not
have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous
do not.”It is updated on the pfsrd site.
Selective Spell (Metamagic)
Your allies need not fear friendly fire.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.
Level Increase: +1 (a selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)
Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.
Ok, then RAW, both feats would not be usable on the same spell, as the moment you change the duration from instant to 1 round, the selective no longer functions on that spell. Most DMs would still allow it, but not RAW, unless there's some other errata I don't know about, since I generally don't read errata.
Ok, then RAW, both feats would not be usable on the same spell, as the moment you change the duration from instant to 1 round, the selective no longer functions on that spell. Most DMs would still allow it, but not RAW, unless there's some other errata I don't know about, since I generally don't read...Selective Spell does not require that the spell be instantaneous, only that it have an AoE. RAW, it works.The selective spell feat only works on instantaneous spells. The lingering metamagic feat make it stay around. The duration is not officially changed though. I guess it is time to hit the FAQ button.
I would allow it to work.
Actually it does by the errata
Pages 168–169—In the Selective Spell feat, in the
Benefit section, in the first paragraph, in the first
sentence, change “with an area effect, you can” to
“with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous,
you can.” In the second paragraph of that section,
change “do not have an area of effect do not” to “do not
have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous
do not.”It is updated on the pfsrd site.
Selective Spell (Metamagic)
Your allies need not fear friendly fire.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 10 ranks.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.
Level Increase: +1 (a selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)
Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.
Lingering spell does not change the duration of the spell though. Officially it is still an instantaneous spell by RAW, however since it last longer than a round it may be RAI for them to not stack.
Lingering spell does not change the duration of the spell though. Officially it is still an instantaneous spell by RAW, however since it last longer than a round it may be RAI for them to not stack.
snipped for length...
Yes, it does change the duration of the spell.
Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn.
A spell that lasts an entire round is not instantaneous.
Lingering spell does not change the duration of the spell though. Officially it is still an instantaneous spell by RAW, however since it last longer than a round it may be RAI for them to not stack.
snipped for length...
Yes, it does change the duration of the spell.
A spell that lasts an entire round is not instantaneous.
Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn.
That is not changing the duration. That is changing how long it last. The duration time does not change to 1 round. The spell just does not go away immediately. Of course this may be mere semantics, but I can bet that not saying the duration was stated as changing will be an argument at a table somewhere. Of course that would make it dispellable if the duration officially changed.
Lingering spell does not change the duration of the spell though. Officially it is still an instantaneous spell by RAW, however since it last longer than a round it may be RAI for them to not stack.
snipped for length...
Yes, it does change the duration of the spell.
A spell that lasts an entire round is not instantaneous.
Benefit: You may cause an instantaneous spell that affects an area to persist until the beginning of your next turn.
That is not changing the duration. That is changing how long it last. The duration time does not change to 1 round. The spell just does not go away immediately. Of course this may be mere semantics, but I can bet that not saying the duration was stated as changing will be an argument at a table somewhere. Of course that would make it dispellable if the duration officially changed.
Duration, Noun
the length of time something continues or existsIf you change the length of time something lasts, you ARE changing its duration. This is English 101. The designers put in an entire glossary in the back of the main rule book for when words mean something different than the do in standard English. Also, any time they want a specific effect for something, they include it in the text of the thing. Using plain English, we can see that the feat clearly changes how long the spell sticks around for. If Piazo, or even WotC, intended for something to be a certain way that is contrary to logic or common sense, they come right out and say so. Of course, the Champions of Ruin version of Lingering Spell works rather differently.
Unless we hear from a Dev, Logic and common sense both, say that this is the way it works. You want it to work differently at your table, more power to ya. Like I said earlier, I'd likely allow it at my table as well.
I will admit that you are correct that it doesn't say "Change the Duration of the spell to be 1 round," however the Duration of a spell is a descriptor that tells you how long the spell lasts. If you change how long the spell lasts, you are in fact changing its duration.
Duration, Noun
the length of time something continues or existsIf you change the length of time something lasts, you ARE changing its duration. This is English 101. The designers put in an entire glossary in the back of the main rule book for when words mean something different than the do in standard English. Also, any time they want a specific effect for something, they include it in the text of the thing. Using plain English, we can see that the feat clearly changes how long the spell sticks around for. If Piazo, or even WotC, intended for something to be a certain way that is contrary to logic or common sense, they come right out and say so. Of course, the Champions of Ruin version of Lingering Spell works rather differently.
Unless we hear from a Dev, Logic and common sense both, say that this is the way it works. You want it to work differently at your table, more power to ya. Like I said earlier, I'd likely allow it at my table as well.
I will admit that you are correct that it doesn't say "Change the Duration of the spell to be 1 round," however the Duration of a spell is a descriptor that tells you how long the spell lasts. If you change how long the spell lasts, you are in fact changing its duration.
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might be long-lasting.
A lingering spell instantaneously creates an area of lingering magical something. That magical something sticks around till the end of the round. Durations for spells use a vocabulary defined by the rules.