This thread is a two-part discussion. I want to know if I am responsible for the destruction of a campaign, and I want to hear the tales of other campaigns exploding into little pieces in the most spectacular ways possible.
So, I am playing an Halfling Aberration Sorc (I liked the idea of the really long arms on a halfling XP ). My GM insists on rolling stats, so I ended up with a really high dex and charisma, with negative strength and con (My rolls were abysmal but still legal). My over-arching themes for this character were Loving The Daughters (My Halfling had a bad habit of being found in the barn with the village mayor's or head farmer's, or both on one occasion, daughters) and Magic Solves EVERYTHING. His greatest fear was Mind Death (His body could die, but not his mind!).
Why does explaining these things important? Well, in order to escape the reach of more than a few of these very vengeful fathers, my halfling joined the military. You know, travel the world, see new and interesting places, have fun with new and exotic women...you get the idea. Well, he ends up with the rest of the party sent to cure an Unknown Plague in a Valley. Over the course of 10 levels, we solve the valley's problems, but not before getting a little side-tracked. We end up stopping a Lich (Oddly enough, not the cause of the valley's problems). This gives the halfling the idea of becoming a Lich himself, which he keeps to himself.
Defeating the Lich yielded several magic items, including an Amulet of Disease Immunity. Here comes the issue...the Amulet is cursed. After two levels of wearing the Amulet (a month or two), the wearer of the Amulet becomes undead, while retaining his sentience. This wouldn't of been an issue, had the Sorcerer not been given the Amulet by the rest of the party. Here is where the problems start...
10 days after officially becoming Undead (He had burned away his flesh so he would stop stinking) the party cleric tries to Heal the Sorcerer to death, concerned with saving the Sorcerer's soul. When that didn't work, the cleric threatened to kill herself to force the Sorcerer to willingly accept a Raise Dead. The Sorcerer talked the Cleric down, so the Sorcerer managed to work out a Geas that would effect his Undead Form, so he couldn't kill innocents, experiment with other undead, that sort of thing.
To sum up the rest of a very, very long story, the campaign blew up when the Undead Sorc, now level 12, wanted to get to the Restricted Area of a Wizard's Vault. He unleashed all of his remaining 69 spell levels to short out an epic level warding, nearly killed everyone in a 1 mile radius (Forgot to shunt the energy). Instead of getting killed, thanks to Hero Points, he was True Resurrected thanks to crashing into a Philosopher's Stone and shattering it over him.
The spark that ignited the campaign was when the Sorc identified a sword that had been taken from the open section of the vault, a Luckblade with two wishes on it. He was going to use the Wishes to give his earlier self the information of what had happened, and rewrite history (Groundhog's Day, essentially). The cleric put pressure on the GM, who put pressure on the party leader, and after chewing me out for three days, the party leader and myself decided we were done with this silliness. With two of 5 players dropping the campaign, the campaign ended.
So, was my decision the correct one in dropping the campaign, or should I have tried to work something out with the party?
I am responding to this as I am reading. If I make any mistakes due to not reading in full first I will post a revision.
Why does explaining these things important? Well, in order to escape the reach of more than a few of these very vengeful fathers, my halfling joined the military. You know, travel the world, see new and interesting places, have fun with new and exotic women...you get the idea. Well, he ends up with the rest of the party sent to cure an Unknown Plague in a Valley. Over the course of 10 levels, we solve the valley's problems, but not before getting a little side-tracked. We end up stopping a Lich (Oddly enough, not the cause of the valley's problems). This gives the halfling the idea of becoming a Lich himself, which he keeps to himself.
Defeating the Lich yielded several magic items, including an Amulet of Disease Immunity. Here comes the issue...the Amulet is cursed. After two levels of wearing the Amulet (a month or two), the wearer of the Amulet becomes undead, while retaining his sentience. This wouldn't of been an issue, had the Sorcerer not been given the Amulet by the rest of the party. Here is where the problems start...
If you became undead over time it seems that the gradual process would have been noticed. Even if they don't know you are becoming undead they(the party) should know something is wrong. A spellcraft check would have determined that the item was cursed and what it was doing. Of course the ability to make a successful check depends on the difficulty of the spellcraft dc.
My question is did the party notice the change, and what did they do about it.
To sum up the rest of a very, very long story, the campaign blew up when the Undead Sorc, now level 12, wanted to get to the Restricted Area of a Wizard's Vault. He unleashed all of his remaining 69 spell levels to short out an epic level warding, nearly killed everyone in a 1 mile radius (Forgot to shunt the energy). Instead of getting killed, thanks to Hero Points, he was True Resurrected thanks to crashing into a Philosopher's Stone and shattering it over him.
Being undead is not a factor in this part. While your character tried to get into the vault the DM fiat is what made that happen. He could have simply said your magical assault failed or gave hints toward a less destructive idea. Were there any knowledge(arcana) or spellcraft checks made? Was the DC even possible to make? What was the correct way to bypass this problem?
The spark that ignited the campaign was when the Sorc identified a sword that had been taken from the open section of the vault, a Luckblade with two wishes on it. He was going to use the Wishes to give his earlier self the information of what had happened, and rewrite history (Groundhog's Day, essentially). The cleric put pressure on the GM, who put pressure on the party leader, and after chewing me out for three days, the party leader and myself decided we were done with this silliness. With two of 5 players dropping the campaign, the campaign ended.
So, was my decision the correct one in dropping the campaign, or should I have tried to work something out with the party?
Wish has specific limits. Anything else is up to the GM. The cleric has no right to demand the GM to anything with wish. I would not allow a groundhog day*. Why did you drop the campaign? Why did the other person drop the campaign. It seems you just got mad and quit, but talking should always be done first, generally speaking. Of course there are times when I understand. I am looking forward to your replies.
*I may change my mind for this situation depending on the answers I get for questions I asked about this thread.
Ultimately it's up to the DM to pump the brakes if a player tries and derail a campaign. It sounds like you played a part in it all but by no means was this entirely your fault.
Let me see if I got this right.
So, a sorcerer (not you) becomes undead, which causes party strife.
Then, later, the same sorcerer accidentally blows up an entire one mile radius, but survives.
Finally he gets his hands on Wish and wants to undo all of that, and nobody else wants to?
Answering questions as they came up, from WraithStrike:
1.) There weren't any particular gradual changes noticed by the party, but I spent alot of my time using Elemental Body I and trying to avoid getting damaged. I didn't end up really getting healed that often, and the cleric didn't really take a close look at me.
2.) Breaking into the vault set off an alarm, and after some OoC discussion and spellcraft check to see how long till guards would come, the GM said we had about two and a half minutes to get out without an issue, but we could only take around 4 items unless we got creative. He didn't particularly hint at a solution, I don't think he expected me to tackle the problem.
Correct solution, from gear that was available: There was a Rod of Nullification and a Staff of Transmutation available on a nearby rack. Since the shield was held in place by a magic circle, the Rod of Nullification could have been used to shut down the ward, or the Staff of Transmutation could have been used to disintegrate a section of magic circle (and a 10 foot cube of stone) away. However, as this rack of goodies had 8 other items on it and identify takes 3 rounds to identify an item...I didn't really consider it an option.
3.) The Groundhog Day idea came from earlier in the campaign. A different player character had been trapped in a cell and had sold his soul for three wishes. After the third wish, he was zapped away to one of the Nine Hells. He had already used a wish when we found him (He had been stuck in the cell for 100 years and wished for food and water till he was rescued) so when we encountered a Pit Fiend at level 8, he wished that the day would be started over again. Unfortunately, it meant a Groundhog's Day where we all didn't remember anything, and it repeated Ad nauseum. In order to stop the loop, he changed the wish after Groundhog Day 100 to have him remember the events that had happened previously. It all still happened (Every other player had motives for meeting the Pit Fiend, was supposed to be a non-combat encounter), and after the player realized he couldn't stop it, he dropped it.
The reason I wanted to use the two wishes as such was that the vault was in the basement of a tower, and the resulting magical destruction had forced the tower to lean 30 degrees or so. Since we had to destroy the demon controlling the forces in the tower, and the demon was at the top of the tower, I was pretty sure the party didn't want to die if we all stepped too far the wrong way.
However, my primary reason for stopping the campaign wasn't the complaining about the wish. It was that the cleric (Probably should of mentioned she is the GM's sister) decided not to talk to me about it, and chose to go around my back and force the GM's hand. Doing something like that is a pet peeve of mine, and I will not stand for it. I still feel kind of guilty though, which is why I posted the thread.
Plus there has to be some decent stories of campaigns exploding, or being shanghaied in another direction.
Oh, I misunderstood. You were the sorcerer.
My last line above still stands; why are they complaining about the Wish to undo things?
As far as campaign blow-ups myself, I was involved in a game that ran for about two years. It was excellent at first, but by the end, the one DM (there were a few, and they rotated) had not only gotten extremely railroady (it would make for decent movie/novel plots, horrible game) but when he wasn't DM'ing, his characters were ganging up on mine. See, his one was a Changeling, and my character, having been literally raised by wild animals for a good portion of his life, viewed it as a demon, and hated demons. And then when the Changeling wants sexual relations with my character, and I attack it instead (and leave it at minimal HP) and flee, then that DM's CG elf paladin says I was wrong, and if I don't make it up, I should be killed.
Yeah. I and another player left after that, and the game fell apart. Their attempts at a restart always failed. I went in to a restart attempt with certain caveats I would leave over, written upfront, and they broke them by the second game. (Things like "no major plot advancement on nonscheduled games days"; we played online, and they would often get together on nonscheduled days. Which was fine for in-between RP, but then they'd go ahead and continue the story even if a person or two was missing.)
And the other DMs? One was too focused on his plotlines and DMPCs for us to feel like we were doing anything. The third was the best, but had gotten too busy by the end to run anything.
Oh, I misunderstood. You were the sorcerer.
My last line above still stands; why are they complaining about the Wish to undo things?
They were complaining about it because they thought it was because I wanted to stay an undead. To me, staying an undead was an added bonus: Like getting a cash back bonus on a new car. You don't buy the car for the extra $3k in your pocket. You buy the car cause you want/need the car.
I just really wanted to look at the goodies that were behind the extra warding in wizard vault...and almost survived the explosion.
And it sucks when the meta-gaming happens like that...I have seen campaigns torn apart by such things.
Answering questions as they came up, from WraithStrike:
1.) There weren't any particular gradual changes noticed by the party, but I spent alot of my time using Elemental Body I and trying to avoid getting damaged. I didn't end up really getting healed that often, and the cleric didn't really take a close look at me.
I am assuming you were you like a vampire in the sense that until your flesh started to rot it was hard to tell?
2.) Breaking into the vault set off an alarm, and after some OoC discussion and spellcraft check to see how long till guards would come, the GM said we had about two and a half minutes to get out without an issue, but we could only take around 4 items unless we got creative. He didn't particularly hint at a solution, I don't think he expected me to tackle the problem.Correct solution, from gear that was available: There was a Rod of Nullification and a Staff of Transmutation available on a nearby rack. Since the shield was held in place by a magic circle, the Rod of Nullification could have been used to shut down the ward, or the Staff of Transmutation could have been used to disintegrate a section of magic circle (and a 10 foot cube of stone) away. However, as this rack of goodies had 8 other items on it and identify takes 3 rounds to identify an item...I didn't really consider it an option.
The GM should not have told you how many items were in there, thus allowing you to metagame. I would have had you in the room, with the sounds of guards coming. I put this part on the GM.
3.) The Groundhog Day idea came from earlier in the campaign. A different player character had been trapped in a cell and had sold his soul for three wishes. After the third wish, he was zapped away to one of the Nine Hells. He had already used a wish when we found him (He had been stuck in the cell for 100 years and wished for food and water till he was rescued) so when we encountered a Pit Fiend at level 8, he wished that the day would be started over again. Unfortunately, it meant a Groundhog's Day where we all didn't remember anything, and it repeated Ad nauseum. In order to stop the loop, he changed the wish after Groundhog Day 100 to have him remember the events that had happened previously. It all still happened (Every other player had motives for meeting the Pit Fiend, was supposed to be a non-combat encounter), and after the player realized he couldn't stop it, he dropped it.The reason I wanted to use the two wishes as such was that the vault was in the basement of a tower, and the resulting magical destruction had forced the tower to lean 30 degrees or so. Since we had to destroy the demon controlling the forces in the tower, and the demon was at the top of the tower, I was pretty sure the party didn't want to die if we all stepped too far the wrong way.
However, my primary reason for stopping the campaign wasn't the complaining about the wish. It was that the cleric (Probably should of mentioned she is the GM's sister) decided not to talk to me about it, and chose to go around my back and force the GM's hand. Doing something like that is a pet peeve of mine, and I will not stand for it. I still feel kind of guilty though, which is why I posted the thread.
Plus there has to be some decent stories of campaigns exploding, or being shanghaied in another direction.
Ok I see the groundhog day is allowed by the GM. He has set a precedent in game. That is why I am careful about what I allow in games. If the cleric pushed the issue away from the table, and used RL connections then that is wrong. I would have come to the GM about being more impartial before decided to leave. I am assuming this is a recurring issue. Of course with the wish having performed that action before I don't see that he has a leg to stand on to not allow it, other than being the GM.
I think the GM needs to stop catering to the party. What I mean by that is sometimes it is better to let thing go as they are instead of allowing "take backs". You don't make deals with devils and expect to get off scot free. The devil is also not supposed to collect the soul until the PC dies though. It is however not unreasonable for the devil to help you die though indirect means.
PS:Why did the other player quit?
1.) Aye, that was pretty much it. And when the flesh started to rot, I was officially undead.
2.) The party leader quit because he started to dread going to the game. I think he would have had more fun if he wasn't the party leader, but he kinda got pushed into the role (We started in a military setting, and he is the only one with military experience).
1.) Aye, that was pretty much it. And when the flesh started to rot, I was officially undead.
2.) The party leader quit because he started to dread going to the game. I think he would have had more fun if he wasn't the party leader, but he kinda got pushed into the role (We started in a military setting, and he is the only one with military experience).
If it was a military game the characters not the players should have been what determined who the leader is, and if he did not want to do it then the nature of the game should have been changed, before it even began, especially if he did not want to do it.
I would have just flat refused the role or been an inept leader. There are plenty of those in real life. I guess that is too late to fix though.I don't think it is your fault though. It just seems inexperience on the DM's part led to bad decisions that added up.
Maybe I'm misreading but here's what I got out of your campaign summary:
Stuff happened, as usual. Then stuff that isn't even remotely in the rules started happening, the plot went psychotically sideways, and now people are fed up.
That about it? What's this stuff about blowing 69 spell slots to something something the something? Hero points, crashing into things, true resurrection wish luckblade.
Dang. My head hurts just reading that stuff. 12th level? What?
I've got an opinion. You didn't kill your campaign. Your DM did, when he took things so vastly off-the-rails that they went into orbit. Around a sun. I'm all for a DM winging it, but this really sounds to me like he checked out and just started saying "yeah, okay, that works, but some absurd whatever happens, so now you have to ridiculous silly crazy." Where's the "no, there's no such thing as that" with this thing about burning 69 spell levels? "I'm sorry player, but there's not even almost such a thing in this game, and if I allowed it, the consequences would be so earth-shatteringly dire... like... oh, say, everything a mile around is just... dead, I guess, that it'd be not worth doing so I don't know why I didn't just say 'no' in the first place."
Honestly, there's probably a second (and more) side to this story, but I figure your DM lost grasp of the game and you players went monkey-in-a-poop-flinging-contest on him.
I honestly think there is another side to the story too. But when I ask the other players I get two saying 'I didn't like that you were undead' and two people saying 'I don't really care'.
As for what happened with the Vault...I have always treated a spell slot as sort of a battery. You have so much energy that you can use to twist reality into whatever you need or prepared that day. Each spell slot contains so many spell levels, etc, etc. It may be that my understanding of the magic system could be awry, but the general consensus I am starting to see on the boards and from players from other groups I am talking with is that what I did shouldn't of been possible, correct?
Well it sounds like whatever you trying to overload the vault did falls squarely into the realm of GM fiat regardless.
I honestly think there is another side to the story too. But when I ask the other players I get two saying 'I didn't like that you were undead' and two people saying 'I don't really care'.
As for what happened with the Vault...I have always treated a spell slot as sort of a battery. You have so much energy that you can use to twist reality into whatever you need or prepared that day. Each spell slot contains so many spell levels, etc, etc. It may be that my understanding of the magic system could be awry, but the general consensus I am starting to see on the boards and from players from other groups I am talking with is that what I did shouldn't of been possible, correct?
Pretty much. Rules wise none of that is supported. That is not saying house rules are bad, but when house rules are made people should think about it carefully and the possible issues it might cause.
Thanks for the input. It helps me understand stuff a bit better now.
I once had a Forgotten Realms campaign that started out with the PCs tracking down their last party and ended with them causing a planar overlap with Ravenloft. Strahd took over Zhentil Keep, Tyr was hopelessly corrupted by the Dark Powers, Manshoon jacked Azalin's Darklord abilities... It got pretty out of hand.
Maybe I'm misreading but here's what I got out of your campaign summary:
Stuff happened, as usual. Then stuff that isn't even remotely in the rules started happening, the plot went psychotically sideways, and now people are fed up.
That about it? What's this stuff about blowing 69 spell slots to something something the something? Hero points, crashing into things, true resurrection wish luckblade.
Dang. My head hurts just reading that stuff. 12th level? What?
I've got an opinion. You didn't kill your campaign. Your DM did, when he took things so vastly off-the-rails that they went into orbit. Around a sun. I'm all for a DM winging it, but this really sounds to me like he checked out and just started saying "yeah, okay, that works, but some absurd whatever happens, so now you have to ridiculous silly crazy." Where's the "no, there's no such thing as that" with this thing about burning 69 spell levels? "I'm sorry player, but there's not even almost such a thing in this game, and if I allowed it, the consequences would be so earth-shatteringly dire... like... oh, say, everything a mile around is just... dead, I guess, that it'd be not worth doing so I don't know why I didn't just say 'no' in the first place."
Honestly, there's probably a second (and more) side to this story, but I figure your DM lost grasp of the game and you players went monkey-in-a-poop-flinging-contest on him.
+1
My sentiments exactly. This situation is so outlandish I don't even know where to begin. Sounds like there was party strife before you were undead to me. Being a sentient undead doesn't make you evil or change your character other than physically, I'm not sure why your party would take such issue with that rather than try to help you.