Shield Fighter question

[thepuregamer]

So my question is this.

You have a 5th lvl shielded fighter with the shield fighter ability and two weapon fighting. He uses a falcata and a light shield.

When he two weapon fights, he gets 2 main hand attacks(falcata) and two off hand attacks(light shield). With the shield fighter ability, he can interchange main hand and shield attacks on a full attack.

So thus on his full attack he can make 4 falcata attacks. How does this affect his hit bonus and his damage?

The falcata is not actually his off-hand weapon so does he get his full str bonus? Also the falcata is not a light weapon, does this put him at -4 to hit for two weapon fighting? Or since his off-hand weapon is a light weapon, his two weapon fighting penalty stays at -2.

Ok later on, he has bashing finish as well.

Now during a full attack, when he makes a critical hit, can he switch his shield bash with a falcata attack?

Those are my questions.

[Nixda]

PFSRD wrote:

Shield Fighter (Ex)

At 5th level, a shielded fighter gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a shield bash. These bonuses increase by +1 every four levels beyond 5th. With a full-attack action, a shielded fighter may alternate between using his weapon or his shield for each attack. This action does not grant additional attacks or incur penalties as two-weapon fighting does.

Never used this myself, but I'm not sure how to read this correctly. To me it sounds as if you could either

• NOT use this ability and use the shield as an offhand weapon with the usual TWF penalties or
  
• (interpretation 1) use this ability with your normal +6/+1 BAB, therefore getting two attacks but being free to choose either your weapon or your shield and no additional offhand attacks or
  
• (interpretation 2) use this ability with your normal +6/+1 BAB, therefore getting two attacks but being free to choose either your weapon or your shield and getting additional offhand attacks with the usual penalties.

I tend towards interpretations one ("does not grant additional attacks"). Under either interpretation you'd apply full the full str bonus to your "main" attacks ("does not ... incur penalties"), no matter if shield or falcata.
No matter what the scenario is, TWF (including the feat) with falcata and light shield gives you -2/-2 penalties at the max (even less for the shield with shield mastery).
I don't quite see how to get bashing finish as a 5th lvl fighter. But since you cannot shield bash with a falcata, you'd of course have to use your shield for the free bash.

[thepuregamer]

Nixda wrote:

I don't quite see how to get bashing finish as a 5th lvl fighter. But since you cannot shield bash with a falcata, you'd of course have to use your shield for the free bash.

I said later on and thus I meant, at a later lvl when he has bashing finish, could he switch out his free shield bash on a crit for a falcata attack.

Anyway, I guess I can understand how he gets a free shield bash attack and thus cannot switch it out.

Now when I look at the shield fighter ability, I see that when the fighter makes a full attack action, he can alternate between using his shield or his weapon for each attack. The second line reads to me as just a way to confirm that this ability does not give him extra attacks or impose penalties.

So a fighter uses a full attack action while wielding a falcata and a shield with a full attack action he can both use shield fighter and two-weapon fighting.

So I interpreted it as on each of his attacks he can switch between his falcata or shield. But it is good to get other opinions. So I am happy to see how other people read this.

[Howie23]

thepuregamer wrote:

So I am happy to see how other people read this.

My reading of it is that the author of Shield Fighter doesn't agree with the 3.5 interpretation that a character can ALWAYS alternate between weapons without penalties unless he is taking additional attacks beyond what he is due based upon his BAB. Under that idea, the Shielded Fighter with a BAB of +6 has two attacks and thus could take them with falcata twice or falcata and then shield, or vice versa.

I do not understand to allow a 6th level fighter with improved TWF, which allows two attacks with each hand, to substitute the additional attacks from TWF back to his main hand to gain 4 attacks.

When you have bashing finish, you can follow up a successful critical with a shield bash. I would not see how you would then substitute the another falcata attack for this specific free action.

*************

As an aside, I understand the author of Shield Fighter to have a different perspective on how iterative attacks can be used that is out of line with how I understand iterative attacks to normally work. My understanding, based on discussions during 3.5 days and supported by the D&D 3.5 FAQ, is that iterative attacks can be alternated between weapons wielded without penalty for fighting with two weapons. Fighting with two weapon penalties only apply when gaining additional attacks from doing so.

[thepuregamer]

Seeing as how there is a varied interpretation of this ability and that paizo decided to make another fighter archetype(rondelero duelist) with a similar ability(strong swing), it would be nice to know what a dev's opinion on these abilities.

My personal reason for my interpretation is that,

shield fighter can be used on a full attack action and it says he can alternate between using his main weapon or his shield on "each" attack.

Now I think that you can use both shield fighter and two weapon fighting on a full attack. If you can use both at the same time how do they interact. Since 2 fighter archetypes get this ability, it seems worthy of clarification.

[Ice Titan]

I always assume 'can alternate between' and TWF means I could take TWF, Imp TWF and whatever else, carry around a heavy shield, use a shortsword in my offhand, and then just make all attacks with my shield.

Instead of

Shortsword/Shield/-5 Shortsword/-5 Shield

I could just

Shield/Shield/-5 Shield/-5 Shield

[Kaiyanwang]

Ice Titan wrote:

I always assume 'can alternate between' and TWF means I could take TWF, Imp TWF and whatever else, carry around a heavy shield, use a shortsword in my offhand, and then just make all attacks with my shield.

Instead of

Shortsword/Shield/-5 Shortsword/-5 Shield

I could just

Shield/Shield/-5 Shield/-5 Shield

this, or there is another fighter archetype to fix :P