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Me and my DM weren't really impressed with the weapon adept monk archetype. I came up with some adjustments and he wants me to put it here for comment before oking it.
-add short sword to list of weapons that can be used in a flurry and with perfect strike
- remove improved unarmed combat and damage increases for unarmed
Option 1 - apply damage increases to weapon that is chosen for weapon focus
Option 2 - add +1d6 sneak attack for levels monk damage would increase
Option 3 - add +1d6 sneak attack at levels 4 8 12 16 20
Which option seems best, any alternative options you can suggest?
Edit: monk also loses ki strike magic and lawful
I have two suggestions:
1. You could allow the weapon adept use his unarmed damage for his chosen weapon. Let him keep his other abilities as is (ki strike magic/lawful).
I've read that this is a pretty common houserule.
2. Or you could let him use his ki strike (magic/lawful/adamantium) with his weapon (and only his chosen weapon, not unarmed) and drop his unarmed damage to 1d6 (no increases with level), maybe remove his ability to flurry unarmed as well.
This way he would be a master with his weapon but only slightly better than "average joe" with his fists.
Adding Shortsword to the list seems resonable also.
Adding sneak attack feels out of character for a Weapon adept in my opinion.
I would probably go with option 2.
Try it a couple of sessions and then evaluate with your GM.
I would simply allow him one weapon of choice to be his 'monk weapon' so you could have someone that studies northern eagle form, iron monkey, or tiger without needing a new template for each.
I would also go with something along the lines of option 1 I think.
I wouldn't allow a shortsword on the list - particularly not in conjunction with a sneak attack progression: a single Sword of Subtlety will be too good on a flurrying monk.
Sneak attack - and progression - I'd exclude on principle as well. The weapon adept is plenty strong and has absolutely no need to be buffed up with another class's signature ability. If you really think the weapon adept needs buffing, then you should do so on much subtler grounds. Saying "I take away unarmed damage progression but add sneak attack" is not an even trade: you give up something you weren't using to get something very powerful. Sneak attacks on a flurrying monk are exceptionally powerful due to his high number of attacks at pseudo-full-BAB.
If you absolutely need to increase his oomph, then I'd say it is fair to give up the unarmed damage progression and in its place gain:
Weapon Adept Training: A weapon adept counts 1/2 his total weapon adept level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack. This ability replaces the unarmed damage progression a weapon adept usually gains.
Weapon Sage: A weapon adept may automatically confirm a critical threat by expending a ki point as an immediate action. This ability replaces wholeness of body.
to be honest? when i played my Weapon Adept Monk the only thing i really wanteed was Greater Weapon focus. I was fine with the Damage. With Perfect Strike Getting Crits isnt really an issue.
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I wouldn't allow a shortsword on the list - particularly not in conjunction with a sneak attack progression: a single Sword of Subtlety will be too good on a flurrying monk.
Sneak attack - and progression - I'd exclude on principle as well. The weapon adept is plenty strong and has absolutely no need to be buffed up with another class's signature ability. If you really think the weapon adept needs buffing, then you should do so on much subtler grounds. Saying "I take away unarmed damage progression but add sneak attack" is not an even trade: you give up something you weren't using to get something very powerful. Sneak attacks on a flurrying monk are exceptionally powerful due to his high number of attacks at pseudo-full-BAB.
If you absolutely need to increase his oomph, then I'd say it is fair to give up the unarmed damage progression and in its place gain:
Weapon Adept Training: A weapon adept counts 1/2 his total weapon adept level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack. This ability replaces the unarmed damage progression a weapon adept usually gains.
Weapon Sage: A weapon adept may automatically confirm a critical threat by expending a ki point as an immediate action. This ability replaces wholeness of body.
I'm leaning away from Sneak Attack myself. I do want the short sword on the list for flavor reasons (it's a jian) and the simple fact that it is silly for a monk to have a weapon proficiency that can't be flurried with (minus the ranged weapons of course, but that is what Zen Archer is for)
I like your Adept Training, is Sage too powerful?
I was kind of tired when I wrote my last post and I realize that maybe, I wasn't that coherent, so here's a second attempt:
Let’s analyze what you can do with the weapon adept/monk without changing any rules:
Weapon adept, chosen weapon: Brass Knuckles (APG, Adventurers Armory).
Right there you got a monk using an enchantable weapon that allows you to use your unarmed damage. Same damage type (b), same crit chance (x2) as unarmed.
This is as far as you get without changing any rules, it is a bit closer to what you want (but with the wrong weapon I’m guessing). You still can't use ki strike with brass knuckles, but it is an armed monk.
Moving on and changing rules:
Monk weapons and unarmed damage:
Changing Brass knuckles to some other monk weapon is pretty simple, the biggest change between monk weapons (in the core rulebook) is the type of damage it does (bludgeoning/slashing/piercing), these types are pretty equal in my experience so changing that type is pretty much a non-issue, unless a weapon has two types of damage (like the cestus), in that case the weapon is stronger.
There’s also the issue of crit chance which I’ll get in to below.
Adding Short Sword to monk weapons:
I agree that the Jian (short sword) should be on the monk weapon list (lore wise). It is however a little better than the monk weapons in the core rules book (but not from the APG, see temple sword).
The short sword has a crit chance of 19-20x2 and does piercing damage. Piercing damage is inconsequential since the Siangham does piercing as well, it's the 19-20x2 crit that's the difference.
The Cestus (APG) has a 19-20x2 crit chance, two damage types (b or p) but only 1d4 damage.
The Temple Sword has the same crit chance, slashing damage and 1d8 damage and it gives +2 on trip attempts. It’s not finessable though (that’s the only drawback over the shortsword).
I’d say it’s a Dao sabre.
The big question is if a 19-20x2 crit will be too strong when the monk is allowed to use his 2d10 damage (at lvl 20, not counting Improved critical). Solution: Remove unarmed flurry, this forces you to flurry with weapons, which can make a difference since now you can be disarmed.
So there are a few choices when adding short sword to the monk weapon list:
1. Let the monk use a short sword as it is. The monk will get a small boost in power, but nothing game breaking since you got the temple sword already and it’s only drawback is that it’s not finessable.
2. Create a new weapon: Jian; dmg: 1d6, Crit: x2, Type: P. (Hint; It's a Siangham). This way the power level of the monk stays the same, but you're probably going to have problem looting this from fallen enemies. Unless your GM tailors loot for you, you’re going to need to get the weapon enchanted for you.
3. Make a new rule for monks using short swords: Monks can use short swords as a monk weapon, but the way they use the weapon, their crit chance is only x2 (they use it in a way that focuses on speed, not precision). This keeps the power level of the monk and lets you loot short swords from enemies.
Ki Strikes:
Allowing a Weapon Adept to use Ki strikes with his chosen weapon might seem like he's getting a free Ki-focus enchantment, but by removing the monks ability to use ki strikes unarmed, you essentially make the ability weaker, since now the monk can get his ki strikes disarmed.
The difference between a +4 ki focus brass knuckle and a +5 brass knuckle is pretty small (same cost, small difference between chance to hit). By removing his increasing unarmed damage (to 1d6 flat) it cancels that small advantage.
There’s also the issue of enemies that gives you damage when attacking them unarmed but these monsters are so rare that it’s a non-issue imo.
That's my opinion, I haven't playtested any of this but I don't think this will make the class too powerful.
The list of weapons allowed for Perfect Strike excludes any weapon with a threat range greater than 20. This is purposeful, since a weapon adept can roll up to 3 times for an attack with perfect strike - so having a threat range 17-20 (improved critical shortsword or templesword or cestus) creates a 50% chance to crit. That is just too good, hence Perfect Strike specifically calls out the set of weapons with which it works.
On those grounds I would essentially allow a shortsword to be flurried, but not perfect striked. As a weapon adept you can still gain Weapon Focus (shortsword) and Weapon Specialization (shortsword) - but you would not be allowed to Perfect Strike with the shortsword.
The two power-ups I suggested (Weapon Adept Training and Weapon Sage) are strictly if you want to powerup the weapon adept. I think he's strong enough as is - but the two abilities suggested are probably fair:
- Weapon Adept Training can possibly give up the ki strike (magic, lawful, adamantine) as well, and is not too strong, as Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization are granted for free anyway (but now you can potentially get Greater Weapon Focus at level 17 and some other goodies)
- Weapon Sage is a strong ability that replaces healing on the monk; it's balanced by the scarcity of ki points and that the ki point could've been spent on +4 dodge AC, an extra flurry attack, or some other ki mystery instead
It's up to you and your GM to decide if you guys are happy with the suggested changes :)