I am not quite sure wether this is the right place to post this:
For some time now I am tinkering with a reskinned magic item group: magic snails.
Following the idea of magic foods from Elves of Golarion, magic snails are one time use items eaten in the use process. Who would use or eat such slimy stuff? Steven T. Helt gave me the answer in Jon Brazer Enterprises Book of Beasts: the Garmunchis!
Any Garmunchi with at least 5 ranks in Profession (cook) and the Brew Potion feat soon discovers the secret of infusing snails with magical energy.
To discover the right snail for the item to be created you have to make a Knowledge (nature)-check or Survival-check DC 15 + 1/50 gp of the potions value first. A natural 20 is always a success.
A garmunchi attempting to prepare a magical snail must succeed at a Profession (cook) check. The DC of this check is equal to 20 + the highest-level spell being incorporated into the snail. Magical snails are consumed in one piece. But, one doesn't have to swallow it. You can just chew it, but if you spit it out the effect ends immediately.
To not just reskin potions, I wanted to add a metamagical effect to a spell of level one to four.
And this is the tricky part. How do I calculate the market price for such an item?
Some examples (with some Kingmaker flavour - our current campaign):
In the Hooktongue Slough the Creeping Ox is found:
> bear’s endurance + Empower Spell
On the shores of the Lake of Mists and Veils lives the Shadowslider:
> blur + Extend Spell
In the farns of the Narlmarches the Dewmoth is found:
> entropic shield + Heighten Spell
At the geysers of the Tors of Levenies the Dragonbreath is found:
> a fiery belch > fireball + Bouncing Spell
(I am not quite sure wether I sould violate the "targets one or more creatures"-rule of the potion)
Being the favorite dish of the herons of the Rushlight River is the Nightspark:
> mage armor + Ectoplasmic Spell
In the shadows of the oldest trees in Thousand Voices the Mooneye is found:
> protection from chaos + endure elements + Quicken Spell
Any advice, feedback and/or comments WELL appreciated!
To not just reskin potions, I wanted to add a metamagical effect to a spell of level one to four.
And this is the tricky part. How do I calculate the market price for such an item?
Well the most similar item I know on top of my head is Eyes of Charming. They cast a heightened Charm Person. They are just priced as that higher spell level, so I think that should be the approach you should take.
Naturally this might clash with the max spell level for potions, but if the individual snails are made by or with the GM, then it shouldn't be a problem.
By the way, I think the idea is awesome. I would love to play a character eating snail for various effects.
Well the most similar item I know on top of my head is Eyes of Charming. They cast a heightened Charm Person. They are just priced as that higher spell level, so I think that should be the approach you should take.
Thank you for the hint! The only problem I have is that the Eyes are not one time use items and I don't know how to translate the costs...
Naturally this might clash with the max spell level for potions, but if the individual snails are made by or with the GM, then it shouldn't be a problem.
Yes, all or most snails break the max spell level for potions, but I am fine with this. At least as long as the spell is in line and the clash resulting from adding the metamagical effect.
By the way, I think the idea is awesome. I would love to play a character eating snail for various effects.
Thank you very much! GM wise I am thinking of a somewhat dumb garmunchi chewing on a snail could make for a fun encounter!
Well the most similar item I know on top of my head is Eyes of Charming. They cast a heightened Charm Person. They are just priced as that higher spell level, so I think that should be the approach you should take.Thank you for the hint! The only problem I have is that the Eyes are not one time use items and I don't know how to translate the costs...
The price of potions are spell level*caster level*50 (store prices, not creating costs). One thing I am a bit uncertain of is what the caster levels should be. As such metamagic does not raise the spell levels, so the normal caster level should apply (apart from heightened spells). I base the prices on this.
So your snails would cost:
Creeping Ox:
> bear’s endurance + Empower Spell
Spell level 4(2+2)*caster level 3* 50 = 600 gp
The Shadowslider:
> blur + Extend Spell
SL 3 (2+1) * CL 3 *50 = 450 gp
The Dewmoth:
> entropic shield + Heighten Spell
Depends on the level heightened to. Follows the normals prices for potions.
The Dragonbreath:
> a fiery belch > fireball + Bouncing Spell
SL 4* CL 5 * 50 = 1000 gp.
I can be made stronger at the price of 200 gp per d6 damage.
It is against the rules for potions, but it exists as a wondrous item (beads of fireball), so there is no problem in changing the feat for this purpose.
The Nightspark:
> mage armor + Ectoplasmic Spell
It doesn't make sense to add ectoplasmic to mage armor, as it already protects against incorporeal creatures.
Mooneye:
> protection from chaos + endure elements + Quicken Spell
SL 5* CL 1 * 50 + SL 5 * CL 1 *50 = 500 gp.
Protection from chaos only works 1 min like this, while endure elements lasts 24 hours.
An idea for your snails:
How about adding a fortitude check when eating them with the risk of being nauseated? DCs could vary for the different snails, and it might be lessened if you only chew it, instead of swallowing.
Additionally you might make a feat or trait, that makes you accustomed to the snails, thus ignoring the fort check.
The price of potions are spell level*caster level*50 (store prices, not creating costs). One thing I am a bit uncertain of is what the caster levels should be. As such metamagic does not raise the spell levels, so the normal caster level should apply (apart from heightened spells). I base the prices on this.
Wouldn't one need to have the right CL to prepare a snail with a spell modified by a metamagical effect? For example CL 7 for the Creeping Ox?
So your snails would cost:
Creeping Ox:
> bear’s endurance + Empower Spell
Spell level 4(2+2)*caster level 3* 50 = 600 gpThe Shadowslider:
> blur + Extend Spell
SL 3 (2+1) * CL 3 *50 = 450 gpThe Dewmoth:
> entropic shield + Heighten Spell
Depends on the level heightened to. Follows the normals prices for potions.The Dragonbreath:
> a fiery belch > fireball + Bouncing SpellSL 4* CL 5 * 50 = 1000 gp.
I can be made stronger at the price of 200 gp per d6 damage.
It is against the rules for potions, but it exists as a wondrous item (beads of fireball), so there is no problem in changing the feat for this purpose.The Nightspark:
> mage armor + Ectoplasmic SpellIt doesn't make sense to add ectoplasmic to mage armor, as it already protects against incorporeal creatures.
Mooneye:
> protection from chaos + endure elements + Quicken Spell
SL 5* CL 1 * 50 + SL 5 * CL 1 *50 = 500 gp.
Protection from chaos only works 1 min like this, while endure elements lasts 24 hours.
Thank you a ton for your maths, man! Well appreciated! :D
The Nightspark:
> mage armor + Ectoplasmic SpellIt doesn't make sense to add ectoplasmic to mage armor, as it already protects against incorporeal creatures.
This was a decision on the fly. I wondered about this very issue typing it. Thanks for clearing it up.
An idea for your snails:
How about adding a fortitude check when eating them with the risk of being nauseated? DCs could vary for the different snails, and it might be lessened if you only chew it, instead of swallowing.
Additionally you might make a feat or trait, that makes you accustomed to the snails, thus ignoring the fort check.
I really like this idea. I always had a will save in mind to even try to consume it. But I didn't want to take this decision out of the consumers hands. A Fortitude check is much more logical and fair.
The problem would be to define the group who would eat a snail without any constraints with so many monstrous creatures in the game.
One could rule every non-garmunchi has to make a check, but I guess there are MANY races who would eat snails!
One could rule every member of the core races has to make a check, but there may be cultures among these races who actually eat snails!
One could rule every humanoid has to make a check, but there are certainly some who would eat snails!
Or one could simply rule everyone who is not familiar with the eating of snails has to make a check until she has successfully consumed a snail.
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Mmm. I loved snails the one time I had them. Yummy. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to eat them raw, though...
Neat idea, and one that's easily portable to non-snail consumables, like magic fruit or magical nuts or magical eggs, that when consumed release the magic upon the imbiber. Nuts, fruit and eggs work for me thematically, since each represents the potential and promise of new life, being consumed to power the magic.
An acorn powering a first level spell is destroying the potential existence of an oak tree, for a temporary effect (which, based on the focus chosen, might be an enlarge + barkskin effect).
Neat idea, and one that's easily portable to non-snail consumables, like magic fruit or magical nuts or magical eggs, that when consumed release the magic upon the imbiber. Nuts, fruit and eggs work for me thematically, since each represents the potential and promise of new life, being consumed to power the magic.
An acorn powering a first level spell is destroying the potential existence of an oak tree, for a temporary effect (which, based on the focus chosen, might be an enlarge + barkskin effect).
I really like the way this evolves. Especially as I plan to play up the role of druids and the cultures bringing them forth in our campaign. So magic eggs could be created by the lizardfolk for example.
To stick to the snails for the moment, they look like this (for the moment):
Creeping Ox:
> bear’s endurance + Extend Spell
spell level 3 (2+1) * caster level 7 * 50 = 1.050 gp
Shadowslider:
> blur + Extend Spell
SL 3 (2+1) * CL 3 * 50 = 450 gp
Dewmoth:
> entropic shield + Heighten Spell
SL 2 (1+1) * CL 3 * 50 = 300 gp
Dragonbreath:
> a fiery belch > fireball + Maximize Spell
SL 6 (3+3) * CL 11 * 50 = 3.300 gp (ridiculous expensive!)
Nightspark:
> mage armor + Extend Spell
SL 2 (1+1) * CL 3 * 50 = 300 gp
Mooneye:
> protection from chaos + ? + Quicken Spell
SL 5 * CL 9 * 50 + SL * CL * 50 = 2.250 gp +? (ridiculous expensive, even now!)
Perhaps I should really pick two spells with the same duration. Any suggestions?
(Most of the metamagical effects associated with the spells in the first version were pointless. Now it is a bit dull (Extend Spell)!
Good one, Set! Thank you!
Dragonbelch:
burning hands + Widen Spell
SL 4 (1+3) * CL 7 * 50 = 1.400 gp
Mr. Mona gets quite culinary in his Two Pieces of Tarnished Silver, too. Especially in part two it gets snaily slimy!