Is it possible to expand from the Stolen Lands to the coast without infringing on another nation's actual territory? If so which direction should the kingdom expand?
The PCs are good guys who don't want to go the "wars of conquest" route. Besides they are already in one with Brevoy for sending Choral the Conqueror after them and invading after the dragon got diced (Briar the vorpal sword really helped). Brevoy is not really an issue since they can't match the aerial attack squadrons funded by the dragon's treasure. Besides attacking people who took down a CR25 red dragon is really stupid.
There is no land that isn't claimed by another kingdom between them and the coast.
Ofc, they could always go the route of the Italian city-states and have them marry themselves off to any kingdom they want in their empire.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
You might strike East until you reach the Castrovin Sea off of Iobaria (see KM #3).
I also have a mash up of maps somewhere here in the forums in my head, where the map of Iobaria from #3 and of Brevoy/River Kingdoms from #1 were shown in conjunction.
Ruyan.
There's no way any kingdom will be able to expand very far (relatively speaking) other than perhaps easterly without having to wage war.
Diplomacy may well cement a NAP with Kyonin - but there is no realistic way Kyonin would ally with an expansionist kingdom based out of the Stolen Lands.
A group can reasonably expect to be able to unite the River Kingdoms, Brevoy, Iobaria to Brevoy's northeast with the combination of war and diplomacy. However ...
To the west Ustalav's principalities harbor the slumbering Whispering Tyrant, a being powerful enough to slay a demi-gawdess and forcibly convert her into the Lich-Queen of Geb. Marshalling forces along the eastern border might be just the thing to rouse his ire once more ...
The demon-infested Worldwound and the Numerian Technic League are not far from Brevoy either. You can bet that Numeria - along with every other nation-state on the continent - is at least paying attention to their intelligence breifings.
To the south revolution-wracked Galt may well fall prey to your kingdom's machinations. However, to reach the Inner Sea requires the southern reaches of the Sellene River, bordered by Andoran and Taldor. As two of the major regional powers they may be content to watch what happens to Galt, but they will certainly have already begun preparations for, say, a Ninth Army of Exploration.
West of the Worldwound is the Hold of Belkzen. Orcish hordes slavering for causus belli anyone? The eastern territory of ancient Thassilon rests around this region as well, not to mention the potential of having to deal with one or more of Baba Yaga's many daughters...
I can be sure I've not mentioned the bearded hordes of the Five Kingdoms mountains, the crusaders of Mendev, the ever-wary devil-ruled Cheliax, the more southerly major powers of the Inner Sea nor the vast steppes to the east that the Nomen centaurs only scratch the surface of what awaits them. Let alone the other, odder nations that I've forgotten. And of course the pseudo-Switzerland of Absolom itself.
No, the Stolen Lands kingdoms won't be able to expand all the way to either coast without quickly running into abject objections and protests. Even claiming a strip of territory along the Sellene all the way south is considered a declaration of war against four major powers outside of the remaining River Kingdoms themselves: Kyonin, Andoran, Taldor and Galt (in no particular order. That's the shortest route to a sea...
Greetings, fellow travellers.
You might strike East until you reach the Castrovin Sea off of Iobaria (see KM #3).
I also have a mash up of maps somewhere here in the forums in my head, where the map of Iobaria from #3 and of Brevoy/River Kingdoms from #1 were shown in conjunction.Ruyan.
That could work. Go through Brevoy along the hills to the Castrovin Sea. Are there any maps showing further east and south of that area? Does the Castrovin Sea connect to the Inner Sea whether directly or through another body of water?
Avoiding the Whispering Tyrant, Numeria and such for now and besides we don't have any details about them as yet. The orc hordes are not that much of a problem but is there any point to taking Belkzen? Sea access is necessary to build a navy strong enough to break Cheliax's and isolate the nation. Then will move against the House of Thrune.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
You might strike East until you reach the Castrovin Sea off of Iobaria (see KM #3).
I also have a mash up of maps somewhere here in the forums in my head, where the map of Iobaria from #3 and of Brevoy/River Kingdoms from #1 were shown in conjunction.Ruyan.
That could work. Go through Brevoy along the hills to the Castrovin Sea. Are there any maps showing further east and south of that area? Does the Castrovin Sea connect to the Inner Sea whether directly or through another body of water?
Avoiding the Whispering Tyrant, Numeria and such for now and besides we don't have any details about them as yet. The orc hordes are not that much of a problem but is there any point to taking Belkzen? Sea access is necessary to build a navy strong enough to break Cheliax's and isolate the nation. Then will move against the House of Thrune.
The general impression I've drawn from the lands of the "known world" pretty well correspond to an isolated western Europe. To the east are the nameless steppes ... it is said that far to that direction lay Vudra and lands more mysterious and less known. The Castrovinian Sea is probably no more than the size of the Black Sea or Baltic Sea.
Then again, it is your campaign ... :)
The orcish hordes are not the major obstacle you have in immediate proximity though ... the greater dangers are actually closer at hand.
Perhaps an epic expedition by your rulers' descendants into those unknown lands, bent on exploring the frontier to your east ?
in a hurry, sorry.
here's a map:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/tags/golarionThursdays/v5748dyo5lbsi&source =search
Ruyan.
in a hurry, sorry.
here's a map:
Ruyan.
That should help, Ruyan.
Excellent sketch to work off of ...
in a hurry, sorry.
here's a map:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/tags/golarionThursdays/v5748dyo5lbsi&source =search
Ruyan.
Thanks Ruyan.
I'm not quite sure but is the Castrovin Sea landlocked?
Thanks for linkifying, Turin. Didn't have the time; kids, parents, easter and all that.
Scifan - I think, the Castrovin Sea is just a big "lake", but than again, the big map is a rather rough sketch.
Ruyan.
Thanks for linkifying, Turin. Didn't have the time; kids, parents, easter and all that.
Scifan - I think, the Castrovin Sea is just a big "lake", but than again, the big map is a rather rough sketch.
Ruyan.
Darn. OK. New plans.
Darn. OK. New plans.Thanks for linkifying, Turin. Didn't have the time; kids, parents, easter and all that.
Scifan - I think, the Castrovin Sea is just a big "lake", but than again, the big map is a rather rough sketch.
Ruyan.
Linkification is easy when you already have the url sitting there. :)
Ruyan,
Exploration on such a vast scale is one of the things I *love* from old-school D&D that only Kingmaker seems to have touched on in all of 3rd edition. I'd be chomping at the bit to wrangle together an expedition of exploration into Ye Olde Hinterlands as a player.
Linkification is easy when you already have the url sitting there. :)
Depends on the number of kids dragging at your arms and voice level of your wife :D
Anyways, good thinking posting in the original map-thread, scifan. Although, I would have asked JJ directly.
The way I see it, the answer given gives you enough leeway to rule that the Ardshrod river on the Iobaria map in KM#3 connects to an ocean which let's you sail to Cheliax.
From Ioabaria Gazetteer:
Ardshrod River: “The Icy Way.” This icy river traces the
chill northern tundras of Iobaria, separating the semisettled
lands of the south from the more savage north.
Few dare travel the river except in the summer months,
as it is often choked with iceflows.
Due to the following text from the Gazetteer, I would assume the Castrovin Sea is indeed landlocked:
Castrovin Sea: The central sea of Casmaron influences
the climate of southern Iobaria with its open waters,
changing the tundra to semi-arable lands. The waters of
the Castrovin are notoriously harsh and unforgiving to [...].
Emphasis mine.
Have you thought about taking the East Sellen River and then, where it connects with it, the Sellen River (near Kyonin) to get to the Inner Sea?
I am not sure if any obstacles from waterfalls to shallows exist - I do know about some pirates along the way - but the Sellen could also take you to where you want to go - and in much shorter time.
Due to the River Freedoms (walk any road, float any river) your travel should be untroubled at least as long as you are in the River Kingdoms.
No clue, if you can go unnoticed, but that's another story.
Ruyan.
Actually the point of all this is to extend the kingdom's territory from the Stolen Lands all the way to the sea not just a route to travel.
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There is no land that isn't claimed by another kingdom between them and the coast.
Ofc, they could always go the route of the Italian city-states and have them marry themselves off to any kingdom they want in their empire.
I think you mean the Habsburg: Holy Roman Empire + Spain and empire + the Netherlands.