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OK.So I know this has been discussed before but I have yet to find a definitive answer as to who or what can be targeted using Alchemist Extracts. The APG states on page 27.
An extract is “cast” by drinking it, as if imbibing a potion—the effects of an extract exactly duplicate the spell upon which its formula is based, save that the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist.
That is all fine and dandy for the majority of the Alchemists extracts but there a few exceptions.A lot of the extracts are touch for target, so does this mean that the Cure Light Wounds extract only effects the Alchemist, or the recipient of the touch? I only ask because their are a few spells on the Formula list that are very harmful/fatal or fairly useless to the Alchemist if they were to only effect the drinker.
Delay poison (useless at mid to higher levels)
Neutralize Poison (useless at mid to higher levels)
Magic jar (useless or fatal if it only targets the drinker)
Nightmare (useless or fatal if it only targets the drinker)
Eyebite (useless or fatal if it only targets the drinker)
Those are just the ones that stand out to me, there are probably others as well.
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Yeah... with Magic Jar and Eyebite I think the idea is the caster is the target of the spell not the creatures harmed by the effect. The original spells are worded a bit strangely, target "One Creature" implies only one creature is affected but both spells affect multiple creatures.
I assume those two spells affect you control the effect to happen to someone else.
With Delay and Neutralize poison keep in mind alchemists can make infusions of their extracts or they can craft potions. They are also useful below 10th level.
Dude Delay Poison is simply awesome at all levels.
It saves you that fourth level slot for neutralize poison by letting you put off the save throws until such a time as you can leisurely use anti-toxins and heal checks to pass them without trouble.
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Yeah... with Magic Jar and Eyebite I think the idea is the caster is the target of the spell not the creatures harmed by the effect. The original spells are worded a bit strangely, target "One Creature" implies only one creature is affected but both spells affect multiple creatures.
I assume those two spells affect you control the effect to happen to someone else.
With Delay and Neutralize poison keep in mind alchemists can make infusions of their extracts or they can craft potions. They are also useful below 10th level.
Yeah for the delay and neutralize I should have stated that without infusion, other than making them into potions they are a little pointless IMO.
And for Magic Jar and Eyebite, of course that is the way i would rule it, but then it also begs the question on the touch spells. If they once drank by the Alchemist does he then get to use the touch effect on someone else.
The wording of how the extracts are used would be really weird for the Magic Jar and Eyebite to "the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist." ,but makes sense for the touch spells "the spell always affects only the drinking alchemist."
I would just really like to know a official stance on the touch spell portion as I will be playing a Alchemist in a upcoming game as it would dramatically change the dynamic of the Alchemist class.
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Dude Delay Poison is simply awesome at all levels.
It saves you that fourth level slot for neutralize poison by letting you put off the save throws until such a time as you can leisurely use anti-toxins and heal checks to pass them without trouble.
I agree but at 10th level if it can only be used on self when Alchemists are Immune to poison the usefulness drops to 0.
I agree but at 10th level if it can only be used on self when Alchemists are Immune to poison the usefulness drops to 0.Dude Delay Poison is simply awesome at all levels.
It saves you that fourth level slot for neutralize poison by letting you put off the save throws until such a time as you can leisurely use anti-toxins and heal checks to pass them without trouble.
And then you go read the Infusion discovery...
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I agree but at 10th level if it can only be used on self when Alchemists are Immune to poison the usefulness drops to 0.Dude Delay Poison is simply awesome at all levels.
It saves you that fourth level slot for neutralize poison by letting you put off the save throws until such a time as you can leisurely use anti-toxins and heal checks to pass them without trouble.
And then you go read the Infusion discovery...
I know what the infusion discovery does.It is something I do not intend to ever take with my Alchemist. I am thoroughly familiar with the Alchemist class and features.
That is why I asked other questions about some of the other spells choices that the Alchemist has.Because by RAW a Alchemist would have to mighty stupid to take spells like Magic Jar and Eyebite.
First off magic jar..
It targets you at first. AKA you drank the potion, now you can start possessing people. That is by raw.
Yet you could also say by raw that drinking any extract, such as stone fist, doesn't work because it only affects the drinking alchemist.
Eyebite's always been a wierd spell, to be honest. Has always been a bit confusing in most editions of the game, but most have kind of rolled with it and played it as I think it's intended to be played.
I will agree with you on Nightmare though, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I'm guessing that they when they put Dream on the list they just put Nightmare there as well, accidentally overlooking that the limitation makes it ineffective.
With Infusion however, it could be utilized with effectiveness. Spiking someone's drink, replacing the contents of a potion vial, etc. However, it would have to be more of a stealthy, surreptitious application. I guess from that angle, it does somewhat make sense from a class that utilizes/creates poisons with some frequency.
Given that the first sentence for Nightmare reads as: "You send a hideous and unsettling phantasmal vision to a specific creature that you name or otherwise specifically designate." , I would hazard a guess that the extract allows the alchemist to do exactly the same thing, send a nightmare to a target, rather than suffer the efects of the spell himself. The spell/extract would be the vehicle of delivery, not the actual nightmare.
I believe this would be the intent for most of the spells that you are concerned with.