Eidolon ability damage

[Varthanna]

I am playing a level 1 summoner in Carrion Crown, and something came up where my Eidolon took Con damage. Looking at the rules it almost seems like my eidolon is stuck with the con damage until we level up to 3rd and the cleric can get lesser restoration.

1. Is this really the case?

2. What if the eidolon killed, will it come back with con damage?

3. If not, doesn't that make strange instances where its best to kill your severely crippled eidolon intentionally?

[Varthanna]

Varthanna wrote:

I am playing a level 1 summoner in Carrion Crown, and something came up where my Eidolon took Con damage. Looking at the rules it almost seems like my eidolon is stuck with the con damage until we level up to 3rd and the cleric can get lesser restoration.

1. Is this really the case?

2. What if the eidolon killed, will it come back with con damage?

3. If not, doesn't that make strange instances where its best to kill your severely crippled eidolon intentionally?

Anyone? :(

[TeShen]

Varthanna wrote:

I am playing a level 1 summoner in Carrion Crown, and something came up where my Eidolon took Con damage. Looking at the rules it almost seems like my eidolon is stuck with the con damage until we level up to 3rd and the cleric can get lesser restoration.

1. Is this really the case?

2. What if the eidolon killed, will it come back with con damage?

3. If not, doesn't that make strange instances where its best to kill your severely crippled eidolon intentionally?

PFSRD wrote:

. . . A summoner can summon his eidolon in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform. When summoned in this way, the eidolon hit points are unchanged from the last time it was summoned. The only exception to this is if the eidolon was slain, in which case it returns with half its normal hit points. The eidolon does not heal naturally. . . .

PFSRD wrote:

. . .

Ability Score Damage

Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores. This damage does not actually reduce an ability, but it does apply a penalty to the skills and statistics that are based on that ability.

For every 2 points of damage you take to a single ability, apply a –1 penalty to skills and statistics listed with the relevant ability. If the amount of ability damage you have taken equals or exceeds your ability score, you immediately fall unconscious until the damage is less than your ability score. The only exception to this is your Constitution score. If the damage to your Constitution is equal to or greater than your Constitution score, you die. Unless otherwise noted, damage to your ability scores is healed at the rate of 1 per day to each ability score that has been damaged. Ability damage can be healed through the use of spells, such as lesser restoration.. . .

I'm not sure how to answer. If healing ability damage is natural healing, then no, eidolons do not heal ability damage and would have to get it fixed some other way.

The listing for ability damage, though, seems to be different from normal healing in that it happens automatically while you need to rest to regain hit points normally. It's just both work better under the effects of long term care...

The eidolon listing specifically says hit points are the same when summoned again (unless it dies)... it says nothing about ability scores.

In answer to 1) it's one of a couple of possibilities.

Your eidolon takes constitution damage and loses hit points. It...

returns with the same hit points when summoned, but the con damage is fixed, or...

returns with the same hit points when summoned, but with 1 less con damage per day, or...

returns with the same hit points when summoned and the same con damage unless spells are used.

In answer to 2) an eidolon does not take negative levels or constitution damage from being slain, because an eidolon killed anywhere but his home plane doesn't really die.

PFSRD wrote:

. . .

Summoning: a summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again. . . .

In answer to 3) yes... if your eidolon has less than half hit points and if you can live without them around for 24 hours, it would be a little cheaper in terms of resources to kill it and have it come back with half its hit points... but yeah, it's kind of stupid.

[Varthanna]

Thanks, TeShen. At the very least its good to know its just not me who finds this a mess. :P

[Gjorbjond]

If the eidolon takes ability damage, it doesn't naturally heal the one point a day a normal creature would and must be magically healed. That means that if an eidolon dies from Con damage, you're in trouble. AFAIK, there are 3 ways to get an eidolon back from Con damage:

1. Purified Calling (4th level spell)
2. Take the Ability Increase evolution next time you level to increase its Con and basically do without the eidolon for the remainder of your current level.
3. If you have Augment Summoning and Summon Eidolon you can summon it long enough for someone else to heal.

Without any of those, it immediately dies after being summoned.

[Bobson]

Gjorbjond wrote:

If the eidolon takes ability damage, it doesn't naturally heal the one point a day a normal creature would and must be magically healed. That means that if an eidolon dies from Con damage, you're in trouble. AFAIK, there are 3 ways to get an eidolon back from Con damage:

1. Purified Calling (4th level spell)
2. Take the Ability Increase evolution next time you level to increase its Con and basically do without the eidolon for the remainder of your current level.
3. If you have Augment Summoning and Summon Eidolon you can summon it long enough for someone else to heal.

Without any of those, it immediately dies after being summoned.

While I entirely agree with this reading of RAW, I'm almost certain that this is not the way that it was intended to work.

A paladin can lose their class abilities if they fall, but all it takes is 2500gp and a friendly divine caster. Nothing permanent, and there's no mechanical cause for a paladin's fall - it's entirely RP driven. Conversely, if you had to use one of these three methods to regain your eidolon, you'd have to gain at least one level and make a permanent choice (either of a feat to take or a new spell to take) to recover from a mechanical loss of your class ability.

[Varthanna]

I didn't even know that the spell Purified Calling existed. It certainly does seem to imply that eidolons retain their ability damage and drains.

That, frankly, is a frustrating use of rules. Granted, at high levels it really doesnt matter, but it totally devestates a low level summoner (for example my level 1 summmoner in Carrion Crown)

[Bobson]

Varthanna wrote:

I didn't even know that the spell Purified Calling existed. It certainly does seem to imply that eidolons retain their ability damage and drains.

That, frankly, is a frustrating use of rules. Granted, at high levels it really doesnt matter, but it totally devestates a low level summoner (for example my level 1 summmoner in Carrion Crown)

If you want an house rule to go with, say that if the summoner stays up all night tending to his eidolon (8 hours of providing care, although I have no idea what kind of care it would be), then the eidolon heals hp and attribute damage as if it was able to rest for a night and did so. On the flip side, the summoner can't prepare new spells for the next day, and may start suffering sleep deprivation.

[Varthanna]

Bobson wrote:

If you want an house rule to go with, say that if the summoner stays up all night tending to his eidolon (8 hours of providing care, although I have no idea what kind of care it would be), then the eidolon heals hp and attribute damage as if it was able to rest for a night and did so. On the flip side, the summoner can't prepare new spells for the next day, and may start suffering sleep deprivation.

Yea... I think another sane house rule would be that an eidolon can heal naturally from rest, but must be summoned to do so. That means that IF the summoner has to go out and adventure the next day, he's doing it without his main class feature, who is chilling at home curled up on the couch.

[Maddigan]

Varthanna wrote:

I am playing a level 1 summoner in Carrion Crown, and something came up where my Eidolon took Con damage. Looking at the rules it almost seems like my eidolon is stuck with the con damage until we level up to 3rd and the cleric can get lesser restoration.

1. Is this really the case?

2. What if the eidolon killed, will it come back with con damage?

3. If not, doesn't that make strange instances where its best to kill your severely crippled eidolon intentionally?

I might house rule natural healing. I have no idea why the Paizo game designers felt making the eidolon go without natural heaing was necessary. It wasn't. It was pure idiocy by whoever made that decision during the design process.

[Sangalor]

TeShen already gave a very good summary. It really seems to be an oversight there. To answer your questions directly:

Varthanna wrote:

I am playing a level 1 summoner in Carrion Crown, and something came up where my Eidolon took Con damage. Looking at the rules it almost seems like my eidolon is stuck with the con damage until we level up to 3rd and the cleric can get lesser restoration.

1. Is this really the case?

2. What if the eidolon killed, will it come back with con damage?

3. If not, doesn't that make strange instances where its best to kill your severely crippled eidolon intentionally?

1. RAW: yes

2. RAW: yes, until you level up and you can reassign your eidolon's evolution points. Then it's fine again.
3. If you're very tight on your money, yes. Otherwise you could buy and administer potions of lesser restorations, buy scrolls etc. That's what they are there for. And you do not have to wait until 3rd level to do so. You could even go to a temple and hire their services to heal your eidolon - money well spent.

If your eidolon ever has reached 0 con, I would rule that it is lost until you level up again, where it is restored to full power. Your eidolon is, in my understanding, part of you. You never ever want it to be hurt so badly, you have to protect it. So if you ever reach such a situation, it's only fair you have to wait for it until you level up.

[Aestolia]

This came up in our game recently as well, we housed ruled it to the following:

As long as the summoner get their 8 hours rest (for summoners natural healing), then the eidolon also gets ability back.

So basically TeShen's second scenario, with the proviso that the summoner did get uninterrupted rest.