I intend to run a campaign of Pathfinder for my 13-year-old sister, and since neither one of us is very experienced when it comes to roleplaying games, I want to find a good pre-made campaign to run. The Adventure Paths I'd heard about sprung to mind, and so I have a few questions.
1) I notice that different adventures in the adventure paths have increasing level requirements - if I buy, say, the first adventure in Legacy of Fire, which says it's for level 1 characters, does that mean that her character will level up to level 5 during the course of the adventure, so that we can go directly from it to adventure #2?
2) Since my sister is 13 years old, I want something that is as light as possible on adult content. Are there any adventure paths I should avoid?
3) Are these adventure paths appropriate for play with only one PC, and 1 or 2 NPC companions? Are there any changes or precautions I should take?
4) Given that she will be my only player, I will need an adventure path that includes plenty of opportunity to interact with varied and interesting NPCs - that means that straight-up dungeon crawls and adventures where the party is expected to be alone for extended periods of time are less than ideal. Which adventure paths are more or less suitable for this style of play?
5) How long can I expect each individual part of an adventure path to take? I'm not looking for exact numbers, just very rough estimates ("an hour or two", "better part of a day", etc.).
6) And, finally, are any adventure paths notably better or worse than other? And if so, which?
In advance, thank you :) . And remember: We are both newbies, so please have some patience.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Arachne wrote:
Hello,
I intend to run a campaign of Pathfinder for my 13-year-old sister, and since neither one of us is very experienced when it comes to roleplaying games, I want to find a good pre-made campaign to run. The Adventure Paths I'd heard about sprung to mind, and so I have a few questions.
1) I notice that different adventures in the adventure paths have increasing level requirements - if I buy, say, the first adventure in Legacy of Fire, which says it's for level 1 characters, does that mean that her character will level up to level 5 during the course of the adventure, so that we can go directly from it to adventure #2?
2) Since my sister is 13 years old, I want something that is as light as possible on adult content. Are there any adventure paths I should avoid?
3) Are these adventure paths appropriate for play with only one PC, and 1 or 2 NPC companions? Are there any changes or precautions I should take?
4) Given that she will be my only player, I will need an adventure path that includes plenty of opportunity to interact with varied and interesting NPCs - that means that straight-up dungeon crawls and adventures where the party is expected to be alone for extended periods of time are less than ideal. Which adventure paths are more or less suitable for this style of play?
5) How long can I expect each individual part of an adventure path to take? I'm not looking for exact numbers, just very rough estimates ("an hour or two", "better part of a day", etc.).
6) And, finally, are any adventure paths notably better or worse than other? And if so, which?
In advance, thank you :) . And remember: We are both newbies, so please have some patience.
Hello, Arachne.
First off, welcome to the boards, Lilith will probably be round with cookies later. The community is quite friendly to newcomers so feel free to ask questions. Most of us will try to answer you.
As to your specific questions:
1) Yes. In general, you will advance enough in one adventure path component to reach the level needed for the next.
2)Definitely avoid Rise of the Runelords. That has the least PG friendly elements.
3) They can be run like that, but the NPCs will mean more work for the GM. As you're also a newbie GM, I would recommend starting smaller than a full on Adventure Path. The module Crypt of the Everflame was designed as a starter and leads into two other modules if you want to continue and will probably suit your needs better.
4) All the Adventure Paths have a lot of NPC interaction, so this shouldn't be a problem.
5) You should expect each part of the Path to take several sessions each of a few hours. We're just getting to the finish of Council of Thieves and have had thirty something 3-4 hour sessions to get there. Adventure Paths are a big commitment and something less huge might be better to start with.
6) Curse of the Crimson Throne and Kingmaker tend to be popular but I'm not sure either would be good for you. The first four Paths (Rise of the Runelords, Curse of the Crimson Throne, Second Darkness and Legacy of Fire) were all written for the rules prior to Pathfinder and so need some conversion, which would be more work for you as the GM. Of the remaining Paths that were written for the Pathfinder Role-Playing Game, Council of thieves is ok, but there are several elements that the GM has to work hard to connect together (It does have a fantastic interactive element in the second adventure, though); Kingmaker is very unstructured, which some players love, but it puts a lot of responsibility with the players and may be too much to start with; Serpent's Skull woudl probably work quite well, but also has a lot of self-motivation components; Carrion Crown is the latest and hasn't finished yet but is horror-themed and so probably won't be suitable for your sister.
Overall, I'd suggest you start with Crypt of the Everflame, Masks of the Living God and finishing with City of Golden Death as they're a series of linked modules which is far less work (although Masks could be tricky to run). Alternatively, you could run some Pathfinder Society modules as they are designed to be run in a convention setting and so are MUCH shorter and easier to manage.
First off, welcome to the boards, Lilith will probably be round with cookies later. The community is quite friendly to newcomers so feel free to ask questions. Most of us will try to answer you.
Oooh, cookies :D !
Thank you for the information - I have a few followup ones, if you don't mind:
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3) They can be run like that, but the NPCs will mean more work for the GM. As you're also a newbie GM, I would recommend starting smaller than a full on Adventure Path. The module Crypt of the Everflame was designed as a starter and leads into two other modules if you want to continue and will probably suit your needs better.
If I decide to run these 3 modules, do they also allow her character to level up appropriately? And about how long can I expect each to last?
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5) You should expect each part of the Path to take several sessions each of a few hours. We're just getting to the finish of Council of Thieves and have had thirty something 3-4 hour sessions to get there. Adventure Paths are a big commitment and something less huge might be better to start with.
Wow :o ! Ok, that's a bit more than I'd expected.
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Overall, I'd suggest you start with Crypt of the Everflame, Masks of the Living God and finishing with City of Golden Death as they're a series of linked modules which is far less work (although Masks could be tricky to run). Alternatively, you could run some Pathfinder Society modules as they are designed to be run in a convention setting and so are MUCH shorter and easier to manage.
I will definitely give it some serious thought, then - I know I definitely want to be able to run something that takes at least a few session.
Also, it should be noted that I *do* have *some* experience as a GM, although not for Pathfinder - I ran a Dark Heresy seat-of-my-pants campaign for a year, and my players seemed to enjoy it. Still, I am relatively green.
Pathfinder Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Follow-up answers:
Yes, they should. To be honest, I cheat with XP and level players up when I think they need to for the adventure.
I'd expect them to take around 12 hours each, but this is a guess as I haven't played a stand alone module for a long time. They might take longer as you're both new to the rules. Obviously that would be split across several sessions.
Also, if you can persuade, cajole, threaten, con or bribe others to join in, it will make things much easier for you. If you get really desperate for bodies, I recommend parents. They can't really say no.
Crypt is a coming of age story with young teenagers getting their start at a village fair. As such, it's really one that teenagers can get their teeth into.
Yes, they should. To be honest, I cheat with XP and level players up when I think they need to for the adventure.
I've usually done similar things, myself, but I don't know how that'd work out in this case.
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I'd expect them to take around 12 hours each, but this is a guess as I haven't played a stand alone module for a long time. They might take longer as you're both new to the rules. Obviously that would be split across several sessions.
That sounds good. Thank you :) .
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Also, if you can persuade, cajole, threaten, con or bribe others to join in, it will make things much easier for you. If you get really desperate for bodies, I recommend parents. They can't really say no.
I might try, but my parents really are the only option, and things might get tricky since they don't really speak much English and I'll probably be running the module in that language.
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Crypt is a coming of age story with young teenagers getting their start at a village fair. As such, it's really one that teenagers can get their teeth into.
The advice that Paul has given you is very sound, I’d just add a couple of things, especially in relation to your question 3. The adventure paths are really designed for 4 players / characters. Depending on how experienced the players are and how ‘optimal’ (or otherwise) their characters are, you might be able to run these adventures for anywhere between 3 and 6 characters with little tweaking. I would say that one in-experienced player, even with 1 or 2 NPC companions, would find these adventures very challenging, probably far too much so, without some serious tweaking on the part of the GM.
The advice that Paul has given you is very sound, I’d just add a couple of things, especially in relation to your question 3. The adventure paths are really designed for 4 players / characters. Depending on how experienced the players are and how ‘optimal’ (or otherwise) their characters are, you might be able to run these adventures for anywhere between 3 and 6 characters with little tweaking. I would say that one in-experienced player, even with 1 or 2 NPC companions, would find these adventures very challenging, probably far too much so, without some serious tweaking on the part of the GM.
I see. Thank you.
Could simply giving her a few additional levels suffice?
In any case, I think I'm going to go with Paul Watson's suggestion, unless something better comes up?
1. Action economy. The AP's are written with assumption that there are 4 PCs, giving the player side a total of at least 4 actions per round. If that drops to 1, the monsters get a massive boost over the PCs.
2. Resource amount and variety. The APs assume 4 Players, each with his/her WBL worth of items/healing, and usually at least 1 caster, preferable two (1 arcane and 1 divine).
3. The APs assume that players are at least moderately aware of how the system works, and that they pick it up fast enough to attain a degree of system mastery in the later parts of the AP.
IMHO, you would be better off finding some solo adventures to start with. There's a critically acclaimed compilation of those made by Expeditious Retreat Press for PFRPG: One on One Adventures Compendium
Once you get off with that, you can start looking for additional players (sister's friends, or your perhaps?) and once you get, say, two more - go for Crypt of Everflame, Hollow's Last Hope or some other "light" intro module. Once everybody is comfortable with how the game works, you can go for an AP of your choice.
The suggestions given by others are all very good, so I'd definitely follow that. But giving her a few extra levels will make up for some, but not all of the problems of having only 1 player.
But where are you from? I'm sure it should be possible to find roleplayers either through the Internet or by going to a local gaming store or even just advertising on bullet boards at a school, library or book store.
Hope you and your sister have a good time whatever you decide to run with :)
1. Action economy. The AP's are written with assumption that there are 4 PCs, giving the player side a total of at least 4 actions per round. If that drops to 1, the monsters get a massive boost over the PCs.
2. Resource amount and variety. The APs assume 4 Players, each with his/her WBL worth of items/healing, and usually at least 1 caster, preferable two (1 arcane and 1 divine).
3. The APs assume that players are at least moderately aware of how the system works, and that they pick it up fast enough to attain a degree of system mastery in the later parts of the AP.
IMHO, you would be better off finding some solo adventures to start with. There's a critically acclaimed compilation of those made by Expeditious Retreat Press for PFRPG: One on One Adventures Compendium
Once you get off with that, you can start looking for additional players (sister's friends, or your perhaps?) and once you get, say, two more - go for Crypt of Everflame, Hollow's Last Hope or some other "light" intro module. Once everybody is comfortable with how the game works, you can go for an AP of your choice.
Like I said, I'm planning to give her 1 or 2 NPC companions to fill up the holes in the party (fighter, archer, caster, whichever 2 she doesn't pick), so she won't be alone. My basic idea is to start these 2 off on level 1 and her on level 2, so they don't overshadow her.
I might be able to rope in some friends of hers later on, but at least in the beginning, she'll be the only player. I think I'll see how it goes - for now, I'm thinking a level 2 PC and 2 level 1 NPCs, and starting out in Crypt of Everflame, and if it gets too tough I can scale down the encounters (fewer monsters, knock a boss's stats down a notch, etc.). I'll probably run a practice session for her to get the hang of the basics before dumping her into the main adventure, though.
Bruno Kristensen wrote:
The suggestions given by others are all very good, so I'd definitely follow that. But giving her a few extra levels will make up for some, but not all of the problems of having only 1 player.
If we assume that I start her off on Crypt of Everflame, which is a level 1 module, and that she has 2 level 1 NPC companions, should she start at level 2, or even higher?
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But where are you from? I'm sure it should be possible to find roleplayers either through the Internet or by going to a local gaming store or even just advertising on bullet boards at a school, library or book store.
I'm in northern Norway. Nearest gaming store is a 2-hour flight away, and gaming isn't really a big activity up here. Besides, I don't really want a table full of strangers.
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Hope you and your sister have a good time whatever you decide to run with :)
Thanks :) . I hope so, too.
EDIT: Of the Adventure Paths, Serpent's Skull is the one that looks the most interesting - how good is it? Also, are there any Pathfinder Companions that detail its setting?
Sargava the Lost Colony is the Pathfinder Companion (meant for players) for the Serpent's Skull AP. For the DM there is also Heart of the Jungle, a PF Chronicles sourcebook for the same AP (Chronicles have now been replaced by the Campaign Setting series).
Norway? I'm sure that there are at least two forum members who live there. Have you tried the Gamer Connection section? You never know what/who might turn up.
Sargava the Lost Colony is the Pathfinder Companion (meant for players) for the Serpent's Skull AP. For the DM there is also Heart of the Jungle, a PF Chronicles sourcebook for the same AP (Chronicles have now been replaced by the Campaign Setting series).
Thanks. If I end up buying that adventure path, I'll probably get both of those, then.
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Norway? I'm sure that there are at least two forum members who live there. Have you tried the Gamer Connection section? You never know what/who might turn up.
It's not just finding other Norwegian gamers - it's finding ones that live close enough. Norway is expansive.
It's not just finding other Norwegian gamers - it's finding ones that live close enough. Norway is expansive.
I know! :) (I did the InterRail trip from Oslo up to Narvik then back down to Stockholm back in the '90s.) But I still think that it's worth a try to ask on the forums here.
Serpent's Skull starts great, but it gets rather repetitive later. It has also one rather bland and underdeveloped adventure. I wouldn't rate it lower than SD (aaargh) or CoT (so much wasted potential), but it doesn't get close to excellence of RotRL, CotCT and Kingmaker.
I haven't seen Serpent's Skull Adventure Path or [the current] Carrion Crown, so can't comment on them, but out of the others, in this situation I'd recommend Legacy of Fire. The opening adventure by Erik Mona includes moments of high humour with some demented (and annoying) adversaries and later rail-roadyness in the Path (being sucked into one extra-dimensional prison then another in parts 4 and 5) might not be so frustrating to new players still exploring the game. (There are also various strategic NPCs scattered around the Path who can be used to make helpful suggestions/provide direction.)
Rise of the Runelords also has a good opening *BUT* there's 'mature' content ther, even in the first installment.
All this said, Legacy of Fire and Rise of the Runelords are both 3.5 adventure paths, and so would need some conversion work on the part of a GM which could be quite challenging.
Of the PFRPG adventure paths I've seen (Council of Thieves and Kingmaker) I don't know if I could recommend either to new players. Council of Thieves is set in a town (Westcrown) in an evil empire (Cheliax) where the players need to understand that their characters can't simply kill everything evil in sight - which could get frustrating - and Kingmaker introduces a whole new suite of Kingdom Building rules in part 2 (plus more stuff for basic fighting with armies in part 5) which might be asking a bit much of players picking up the game still. That said, Kingmaker is very 'sandboxy' in that it allows PCs a certain amount of freedom to go where they want.
If you're running Crypt of the Everflame, you have some time to think about which larger Adventure Path you may eventually want to tackle though.
I would advise you, when using a Paizo Adventure Path to read the whole Adventure Path through first (or at least all the pieces you think you might use) to gain some idea of how everything fits together, and take notes if necessary. There may be adaptations which (with planning) you can make based on your player(s) and their characters.
If you have the time it could be worthwhile to check the respective reference threads for products (if they exist) for questions from other players, answers from Paizo staff, and useful ideas/suggestions. In the case of the six part adventure paths, each forum usually has an obituaries thread, which can be highly useful in indicating to GMs which fights, traps, or other situations might be tough on groups.
Finally, good luck, and welcome to the Paizo boards.
Arachne...one player and a couple NPCs should be fine for most published adventures. Part of it will be what class and build everyone is, as well as how you plan on doing attributes.
Another idea, instead of her running a single player, what about her playing a whole adventuring party?
I know! :) (I did the InterRail trip from Oslo up to Narvik then back down to Stockholm back in the '90s.) But I still think that it's worth a try to ask on the forums here.
Ah, well, I'm farther north than *that* ;) .
Gorbacz wrote:
Serpent's Skull starts great, but it gets rather repetitive later. It has also one rather bland and underdeveloped adventure. I wouldn't rate it lower than SD (aaargh) or CoT (so much wasted potential), but it doesn't get close to excellence of RotRL, CotCT and Kingmaker.
Hmmm... well, i'm not running one of the pre-PF ones, because I don't want to do the converting, and Kingmaker I'm predisposed against because it looks a bit too non-traditional for me (the entire kingdom-building-and-ruling part doesn't interest me at all).
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
If you're running Crypt of the Everflame, you have some time to think about which larger Adventure Path you may eventually want to tackle though.
I would advise you, when using a Paizo Adventure Path to read the whole Adventure Path through first (or at least all the pieces you think you might use) to gain some idea of how everything fits together, and take notes if necessary. There may be adaptations which (with planning) you can make based on your player(s) and their characters.
If you have the time it could be worthwhile to check the respective reference threads for products (if they exist) for questions from other players, answers from Paizo staff, and useful ideas/suggestions. In the case of the six part adventure paths, each forum usually has an obituaries thread, which can be highly useful in indicating to GMs which fights, traps, or other situations might be tough on groups.
Finally, good luck, and welcome to the Paizo boards.
I intend to use that time.
I also intend to read whatever path I end up getting (probably will stick with only one, and run it a few times for different groups to get value for my money) all the way through at least once beforehand.
I'm not going to get any of the pre-PF ones, and like I said, I'm kinda reluctant to try out Kingmaker because the focus on building and ruling a kingdom doesn't appeal to me at all. Council of Thieves, I've heard isn't that good, so I'm inclined not to get that, which would leave Serpent's Skull.
Fraust wrote:
Arachne...one player and a couple NPCs should be fine for most published adventures. Part of it will be what class and build everyone is, as well as how you plan on doing attributes.
Another idea, instead of her running a single player, what about her playing a whole adventuring party?
I intend to round out the party with 2 NPCs that fill roles that her character doesn't (like I said, I'm considering a fighter/archer/mage setup, dependent on what class she chooses).
I'm not going to have her play more than one character - my experience is that the game becomes less engrossing that way.
Well, depending on how long Crypt of the Everflame (plus sequels) takes to go through, all the installments of the Carrion Crown path might be out, bringing that into consideration too. ;)
Some unrelated stuff now. If you use the word smurf in a post, even if you don't normally have an avatar that post gets a randomly assigned smurf to go with it (unless you're Kobold Cleaver who has his own customised smurf, or Sebastian, who is the Bella Sara Pony) - the Paizo PostMonster General has a peculiar sense of humour.
In the event that you're ever up in the early hours of what is a Wednesday morning (in Norway) at what is 20:00 Pacific Standard Time on Tuesday nights in the United States James Jacobs usually pops by the (unofficial) Paizo chatroom to answer questions and talk about things in general. Or there's always the 'Ask James Jacobs' thread down in the Off-Topic discussion forum where he answers question most days.
Paizo has for the past few years hosted an 'RPGSuperstar' contest which opens for entries in later autumn and closes some time around the end of December/start of January. For the past couple of years, entries to this opening round have had to have been Wondrous items, formatted in the same manner as Wondrous items in the current core rules, with entries being no more than 300 words in total. The judges pick their favourite 32 entries and the people who submitted them then have the chance to engage in further design challenges, with progression to further rounds being determined by public voting. The eventual winner is offered the chance to write a 32 page module for Paizo (and this year the three runners up were offered the chance to write scenarios for Pathfinder Society).
In terms of conventions, Paizo host 'PaizoCon' in Seattle on an annual basis (10-12 June this year) and send a heavy presence to GenCon in August. Here in the UK, we have a PaizoCon UK (16-17 July this year, Balti night on the 15 for early arrivals) in Birmingham which we managed to lure the head of Pathfinder Society organised play to last year at the end of his tour of european conventions. I imagine the UK venture captain is busy trying to get someone over this year too...
I'm not informed regarding conventions in Norway, but it might be worth checking (if you can travel) if there are any going on with PFS games, if you want to make a special trip to meet other players.
That was a bit of a lengthy post, and I hope that something useful to you is in there, amongst the miscelleny of information. :)
PS
Oh, if a name above a post is purple, not blue, it's an alias of a poster - sometimes used for roleplaying purposes or general messing around.
Okay, I shall let this thread get back on course...
Edit:
Oh, the window of opportunity to go back and edit a post from the moment of first hitting 'submit' is one hour. Unless you're one of the Paizo staffers with a golem next to your name.
I don't think any of the paths "aren't any good", I think it's a matter of which appeals to whom. Council of Thieves and Second Darkness both get a lot of bad press, but from what I've seen (I own all of SD and the first few adventures of CoT) they're just quirky...where Kingmaker is one of the crowd favorites, and I'm right there with you in that it looks very uninteresting.
A lot of conversion work can be found online, especially for the first half of Rise of the Runelord. It does involve hunting it all down, and figuring out which version you want to use. I'm an insomniac, so at night while I can't sleep I go through and do my own conversions, which works, cuz I don't have a stable group, so there's no time limit.
Any of the paths is probably going to need a little work, as there's likely something you'll see that you think could be better, or could be tweaked to work out smoother with your group. That's a lot of the fun of being the GM, at least in my opinion.
Serpent's Skull seems like a good possibility, what are your thoughts on Carrion Crown?
Well, depending on how long Crypt of the Everflame (plus sequels) takes to go through, all the installments of the Carrion Crown path might be out, bringing that into consideration too. ;)
I'll consider it.
Thank you for your intro post :) . I just have to check one thing: SMURF! Also: Who is James Jacobs?
Also, what is Pacific Standard time compared to GMT?
The contest sounds intriguing, except I have no interest in writing a module, so I think I'll pass.
Fraust wrote:
I don't think any of the paths "aren't any good", I think it's a matter of which appeals to whom. Council of Thieves and Second Darkness both get a lot of bad press, but from what I've seen (I own all of SD and the first few adventures of CoT) they're just quirky...where Kingmaker is one of the crowd favorites, and I'm right there with you in that it looks very uninteresting.
Council of Thieves *looks like* something that would be right up my alley - I'm just a bit leery of it, since it gets so much bad press.
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A lot of conversion work can be found online, especially for the first half of Rise of the Runelord. It does involve hunting it all down, and figuring out which version you want to use. I'm an insomniac, so at night while I can't sleep I go through and do my own conversions, which works, cuz I don't have a stable group, so there's no time limit.
I have to admit, I'm a bit of a perfectionist - having an adventure path that's in the wrong rules set offends my sense of aesthetics. It's an irrational bias, but there it is.
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Any of the paths is probably going to need a little work, as there's likely something you'll see that you think could be better, or could be tweaked to work out smoother with your group. That's a lot of the fun of being the GM, at least in my opinion.
Sure, I just don't like being *forced to* so so - I'm not that good with the rules, so I prefer keeping on the safe side.
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Serpent's Skull seems like a good possibility, what are your thoughts on Carrion Crown?
Carrion Crown looks very interesting, but it's not finished yet, and I don't know how long it'll be. Also, I'm not sure whether or not it'd be too "heavy" for my sister - she's easily creeped out.
I intend to round out the party with 2 NPCs that fill roles that her character doesn't (like I said, I'm considering a fighter/archer/mage setup, dependent on what class she chooses).
I'd make sure to include a healer in there (Note: An archer Cleric is a very viable character). The game really assumes you'll have one and can become unpleasantly difficult if you do not. Especially with only three characters.
You might also want to suggest to your sister that her character be at least decent at social skills, and avoid making the NPCs very good at them, so that there's a solid reason she's the one doing the talking to NPCs for the most part. And likely the party leader.
I'd make sure to include a healer in there (Note: An archer Cleric is a very viable character). The game really assumes you'll have one and can become unpleasantly difficult if you do not. Especially with only three characters.
Thank you :) . I'll try to do that, then (making either an archer-Cleric or a Paladin out of one of her companions).
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You might also want to suggest to your sister that her character be at least decent at social skills, and avoid making the NPCs very good at them, so that there's a solid reason she's the one doing the talking to NPCs for the most part. And likely the party leader.
I fully intend to do just that - no fun if the NPC has to do all the talking. I also intend to make her the party leader, although the NPCs will have personalities (think in the direction of Dragon Age 2 or the Mass Effect series for my intended approach).
James Jacobs has had many titles, but these days he is the Creative Director of Paizo. He is the man in charge of Golarion and the Pathfinder lines, and after Paizo's Customer Service staff, he's probably the member of the Paizo team with the strongest messageboards presence. (Well it's either him or the PostMonster General (Gary Teter) who along with his minion Ross make sure that these boards keep running.)
:)
Hmm. On the Council of Thieves front, I've just recalled that it features The Six Trials of Larazod in part two, which I'm not sure would have its full impact with only one player. Basically, in order to infiltrate Chelish society, the PCs are called upon to take the role of actors in a play about a traditional Chelish folk-hero - and there's a full script (written by Nicholas Logue) provided for the PCs to follow...
Although the exact wording of the play script (which strays into adult territory in places) might be a good reason simply to skip the word-for-word performance and just describe the action.
Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with CoT or all of it's bad press to give much advice. I'm hoping to get the rest of it over this year, though it's not terribly high on the list of priorities...
Carrion Crown will be six adventures, as are all of the APs...though it not being finished is something I can see being an issue. I wouldn't personally run an AP until it was done, I'd read through the whole thing at least twice, and made a number of notes...though I'm something of a perfectionist as well, just in different avenues.
As for things being too "heavy", I can understand the reluctance. If I were DMing for my nephews (one's your sisters age, the other is a little younger), I would be pretty careful about what themes I used. Do remember though, that as GM, you are the filter she will see the world through. So no matter how graphic a given adventure might be, she only sees, hears, smells, experiences what you tell her she does. In my typical Age of Worms campaign the setting is as dark and horrible as I can make it, with everyone a drug addict, sexual deviant, or corrupt in some other way...but that's with a group of college kids as the players. If it were my nephews as the players, I would run the same campaign, same adventures, same NPCs, but with a much thicker filter.
Definitely want a healer in there. I've heard archer paladins work out well. A druid can do alright too, as the druid themselves uses her spells to heal, while her companion can go on a rampage and act as front line fighter. If you have access to the Advanced Player's Guide the summoner class can do this as well, though it's a little tricky, but I think would be more effective after you got a handle on it.
Greenwich Mean Time is (usually) eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time. The change over to or from summer time doesn't always happen at the same time though on the different sides of the Atlantic, so there may be a couple of weeks in the spring or autumn where the difference is an hour different from this.
04:00 GMT is 20:00 PST the previous day for most of the year.
Greenwich Mean Time is (usually) eight hours ahead of Pacific Standard Time. The change over to or from summer time doesn't always happen at the same time though on the different sides of the Atlantic, so there may be a couple of weeks in the spring or autumn where the difference is an hour different from this.
04:00 GMT is 20:00 PST the previous day for most of the year.
Ok, so Wednesday, 20:00 PST, would be Thursday 06:00 in Norway. Middle of the night.
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
Hmm. On the Council of Thieves front, I've just recalled that it features The Six Trials of Larazod in part two, which I'm not sure would have its full impact with only one player. Basically, in order to infiltrate Chelish society, the PCs are called upon to take the role of actors in a play about a traditional Chelish folk-hero - and there's a full script (written by Nicholas Logue) provided for the PCs to follow...
Although the exact wording of the play script (which strays into adult territory in places) might be a good reason simply to skip the word-for-word performance and just describe the action.
Indeed? Well, that sounds interesting, but as you say, I should probably have a full group for that.
I *might* be able to get a second player, although it would be difficult to arrange - I could get my girlfriend to join via Skype.
Fraust wrote:
Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with CoT or all of it's bad press to give much advice. I'm hoping to get the rest of it over this year, though it's not terribly high on the list of priorities...
I can see why. I, personally, expect to buy 1 full adventure path and run it several times, but leave the others be in case I ever end up experiencing them from the players' side.
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Carrion Crown will be six adventures, as are all of the APs...though it not being finished is something I can see being an issue. I wouldn't personally run an AP until it was done, I'd read through the whole thing at least twice, and made a number of notes...though I'm something of a perfectionist as well, just in different avenues.
Yes, I know - what I do *not* know is how long it'll be before it's finished. Honestly, it's 2nd on my list, after Serpent's Skull.
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As for things being too "heavy", I can understand the reluctance. If I were DMing for my nephews (one's your sisters age, the other is a little younger), I would be pretty careful about what themes I used. Do remember though, that as GM, you are the filter she will see the world through. So no matter how graphic a given adventure might be, she only sees, hears, smells, experiences what you tell her she does. In my typical Age of Worms campaign the setting is as dark and horrible as I can make it, with everyone a drug addict, sexual deviant, or corrupt in some other way...but that's with a group of college kids as the players. If it were my nephews as the players, I would run the same campaign, same adventures, same NPCs, but with a much thicker filter.
My sister is quite mature for her age. Still, 13 is 13 - I can most certainly edit things for her but only if it still leaves the adventure path intact.
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Definitely want a healer in there. I've heard archer paladins work out well. A druid can do alright too, as the druid themselves uses her spells to heal, while her companion can go on a rampage and act as front line fighter. If you have access to the Advanced Player's Guide the summoner class can do this as well, though it's a little tricky, but I think would be more effective after you got a handle on it.
I will have the Advanced Players' Guide by the time we beging - I'm expecting it in the mail on Monday or Tuesday.
I think, however, that I want to go for something I already know how to run for the NPCs - something relatively simple, so I don't need to spend much time making their moves in combat. Thus, a melee Paladin or archer Cleric sounds excellent.
You may also want to look at a couple of the other modules.
Into the Haunted Forest has a good RP elemet to it and a lot of fun encounters that are not just combat.
Hollow's Last Hope is also fun, though you may wnat to play down Kreed and his natier tendencies.
And quite a few of the PDS adventures are good for low levels with lots of mixed RP and combat. My players especially liked Silent Tide and it's puzzles that could be either solved though actual Player intuition or game mechanics if the players could't figure it out.
If you are going for NPC allies I would suggest that as you run Crypt of the Everflame you:
Give your PC high stats.
Include a cool 'animal' character that you, or your sister, can run without having to give them a lot of personality (a pseudodragon would work).
Create a passive healing ally (an Elven cleric with archery skills would be good).
Let your sister design the NPC's personality: "So, what would your character's best friend be like?"
Maybe I'm not understanding things...Carrion Crown has about four more months left, one adventure per month, first two are already out. If you mean how long it will take to play...well, then I fully understand. I'd like to say most APs take the same amount of time, but when we did RotRl the first book took four or five sessions (we play ALL day though, 8-12 hours), where the first book in CC could be done probably in one, maybe two of our sessions. As you said, you might play in them, so I won't give out any more spoilers than I already have, but I will say it's very easy to jump from the intro to the last dungeon in Haunting of Harrowstone.
As for running APs multiple times, I think it's a good idea. I convert everything, weather it needs updated or not...and a lot of the time when I'm redoing an NPC, I'll get two or three different ideas on how to make them. So, if I run the path different times I can use the different ideas.
If Skype and playing online is even a tentative option, I would look into d20pro.com. It's a program that sets up what's called a virtual table top. So you load a map, plop down markers for the PCs/NPCs/monsters, and can start playing. It costs money (30 bucks US), and takes some getting used to, but once you get a handle on it I think it will be well worth it. Plus there's the whole part where you can play with friends who don't live near by. If your interested I can blather on a little more about it, haven't used it to game yet, but I've been monkeying around with it for about a month and learned some stuff.
I'll second Hollow's Last Hope. Along with the rest of the Darkmoon Vale adventures. They have some edginess inherent in them, though it's easily watered down to taste.
Beyond what others have said, I agree starting with Crypt of the Everflame series and get both your feet wet with the game. You could also run some follow up Pathfinder Society adventures after that to keep things going. They are short and meant to be run in about 4 hours, plus they are cheap PDF's. I would look at running a AP once you get a more experience with running Pathfinder and hopefully can find a couple of more players.
As for the issue of one player, well when i was younger that was a problem for me as well. There was three of us. What we ended up doing is do troop style play. That's where each player makes and run's more than one PC. So I would just suggest letting your sister make two characters and then if you throw in two NPC's that will help her characters out it should be ok.
Also I agree you might want to check into some of the online programs to get in games online. Possible you and your sister could join the same group then and play together.
Yeah PST is GMT -8 hours, or PST is -10 hours your time. Which would be rough unless you go to bed early on Tuesday night so you can get up early Wed morning and just log on when you wake up.
If you're farther north than Narvik then you are really getting up there.
Welcome to the boards Arachne! Have some cookies. *offers fresh-baked chocolate chip cookies*
Oooh, cookies :D !
Dark_Mistress wrote:
First hello and welcome to the boards.
Thank you :) .
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Beyond what others have said, I agree starting with Crypt of the Everflame series and get both your feet wet with the game. You could also run some follow up Pathfinder Society adventures after that to keep things going. They are short and meant to be run in about 4 hours, plus they are cheap PDF's. I would look at running a AP once you get a more experience with running Pathfinder and hopefully can find a couple of more players.
I intend to run the entire 3-module series starting with Crypt of the Everflame twice (once for my girlfriend, as a sort of playtest, and then once for my sister), and then possibly consider an adventure path. I might throw in a Pathfinder Society module ever now and again, though :) .
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As for the issue of one player, well when i was younger that was a problem for me as well. There was three of us. What we ended up doing is do troop style play. That's where each player makes and run's more than one PC. So I would just suggest letting your sister make two characters and then if you throw in two NPC's that will help her characters out it should be ok.
What I've done (I played a short session with my girlfriend today) was rolling up 3 NPCs - a cleric, an archer rogue, and a fighter tank - and give them personalities (wise but withdrawn cleric, sullen and quiet rogue, boisterous but rock stupid fighter). These are all 1 level below her PC, and will remain so indefinitely. She can choose to take as much control over them as she wants at any given moment, or let me run them, and if her PC goes down, she can still control them as much or little as she wants. This way, they shore up the most important support roles (healer, tank, lockpicker, and trap disabler), and can serve as friends for her character without overshadowing her within or out of combat. None of them have even a single rank in any social skills, and they got 5 less points to build stats than the PC. I'm thinking of adding more to this roster as time goes by, but only allow her to bring 3 at any given moment (a la Dragon Age).
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Also I agree you might want to check into some of the online programs to get in games online. Possible you and your sister could join the same group then and play together.
I don't really want to play games with strangers.
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If you're farther north than Narvik then you are really getting up there.
Indeed ;) .
Fraust wrote:
Maybe I'm not understanding things...Carrion Crown has about four more months left, one adventure per month, first two are already out. If you mean how long it will take to play...well, then I fully understand. I'd like to say most APs take the same amount of time, but when we did RotRl the first book took four or five sessions (we play ALL day though, 8-12 hours), where the first book in CC could be done probably in one, maybe two of our sessions. As you said, you might play in them, so I won't give out any more spoilers than I already have, but I will say it's very easy to jump from the intro to the last dungeon in Haunting of Harrowstone.
OK - about 4 months left? Thank you - that's what I wanted to know.
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As for running APs multiple times, I think it's a good idea. I convert everything, weather it needs updated or not...and a lot of the time when I'm redoing an NPC, I'll get two or three different ideas on how to make them. So, if I run the path different times I can use the different ideas.
I'll probably mostly stick with whatever stats are in the books, and instead fix some details (like changing the occasional magic item into something a player might need). I'll also probably try to recruit 4 players.
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If Skype and playing online is even a tentative option, I would look into d20pro.com. It's a program that sets up what's called a virtual table top. So you load a map, plop down markers for the PCs/NPCs/monsters, and can start playing. It costs money (30 bucks US), and takes some getting used to, but once you get a handle on it I think it will be well worth it. Plus there's the whole part where you can play with friends who don't live near by. If your interested I can blather on a little more about it, haven't used it to game yet, but I've been monkeying around with it for about a month and learned some stuff.
While it's highly unlikely I'll end up using it (I run without a battle map or miniatures, usually), I wouldn't mind hearing more about it if you don't mind the typing.
I've considered the possibility of using a numbered grid - then you can say "Ok, the goblin moves from A4 to B6."
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I'll second Hollow's Last Hope. Along with the rest of the Darkmoon Vale adventures. They have some edginess inherent in them, though it's easily watered down to taste.
Hmmm... I'll think about those, too. For the moment, I'm committed to Crypt++, but it might be worth considering for the future.
Serpent's Skull is a good Pathfinder-rules- built choice for an AP to get some mileage out of. Kingmaker does not actually require that you build and run a kingdom. The rules are there so that you can. There are sidebars throughout that briefly discuss the general nature of things when the "kingdm in the background option" is in play. You should not need much more than a few post-it notes throughout the entirety of Kingmaker to set it up to your taste.
in short, Kingmaker without building/running the kingdom itself means that the characters are the "field agents" or solvers of problems by way of spell and steel on behalf of their liege lord/lady.
Carrion Crown once fully published is likely to be an excellent multiple-use AP as well.
If you go the route of Society modules, the Devil We Know series (four of them if I remember right) I can recommend, and there is one society module that takes place in Facoln's Hollow (same place Hollow's Last Hope takes place in).
As for d20pro...click
here:
The mapping capabilities the program starts with are horrible. So honestly, unless I'm missing something world shattering, I would suggest just not even worrying about them. The ability to pull images out of a PDF (this is something you need a separate program for, but you can find free ones on the net) and load them into d20pr as maps or minis (icons that go up on the map to represent characters) or player hand outs is awesome. This may or may not affect how you purchase things after getting started though. I'm a subscriber to the AP line, so I already have PDFs of most of the adventures I want to run, where if all you have is hard copy, you loose out on this feature.
Character "sheets" are a little fiddly, but I'm starting to get the hang of how to work things. Basically, don't worry about putting spells in the spell tab, and instead put them in the ability tab. Abilities, as defined on the d20pro sheet, can be set up with uses per day (so if you memorize a spell twice, you put it down as useable twice per day) and you can set the saves up. For some reason the spell tab, doesn't give you the option of listing your save DC.
Things I really like about the set up might not do you a lot of good, unless you want to convert over to running a more tactical combat. D20pro handles a lot of the aspects that make running combat frustrating when you play live. Initiative is tracked, and it propts you with who's turn it is. Tracks everyone's damage (I like to use lots of little grunts to back up important villains, so this is amazing). There is a way to apply conditions (blind, deaf, stunned, all that stuff) that I've seen while looking at other stuff, so that has potential, especially if it'll keep track of the duration.
Something I saw just yesterday was a "map marker". It's a little dot you put on the map that by itself does nothing near as I can tell, though as you apply them you end up with a list in a menu off to the side. In that menu you can type a block of text, so that when you activate the marker the text is displayed to your players. So if you run a lot of published adventures, you can put all that read aloud text in those blocks, and put a marker in each of the rooms. I'll keep messing with it to make sure it does what I think it does...
Also, there's a lot of leeway. Not sure how to articulate it properly in a post...you can fudge a lot of stuff, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So if Bob the fighter has two attacks, and for whatever reason the DM lets his player attack three times this round, it's not hard at all to do. Or apply bonuses on the spot, to hit, or to skill checks. And, there's just a basic dice rolling program, so you could use that with you, your sister, and your girlfriend, each with a paper character sheet (assuming you trust your girlfriend not to cheat ;)) and talk through Skype, and use d20pro to roll dice, display maps and handouts.
Serpent's Skull is definitely a path with good replay value. On that note, Carrion Crown would likely go well with your play style. When I played Ravenloft (an older horror setting, in case you're not familiar) we rarely ever used a combat mat. Course, combat was kinda rare to begin with, at least in the traditional sense...
I know! :) (I did the InterRail trip from Oslo up to Narvik then back down to Stockholm back in the '90s.) But I still think that it's worth a try to ask on the forums here.
Arachne wrote:
Ah, well, I'm farther north than *that* ;) .
Wow, that's pretty far north. (At that point, I'm not sure which would be harder to reach, mainland locations like Nord Capp or an island such as Spitsbergen.) So kudos to you for getting a game together despite the geographical location!
Wow, that's pretty far north. (At that point, I'm not sure which would be harder to reach, mainland locations like Nord Capp or an island such as Spitsbergen.) So kudos to you for getting a game together despite the geographical location!
Thank you :) . Yes, it is. But I'm not really planning to stay here for much more than another year or so.
Turin the Mad wrote:
Serpent's Skull is a good Pathfinder-rules- built choice for an AP to get some mileage out of. Kingmaker does not actually require that you build and run a kingdom. The rules are there so that you can. There are sidebars throughout that briefly discuss the general nature of things when the "kingdm in the background option" is in play. You should not need much more than a few post-it notes throughout the entirety of Kingmaker to set it up to your taste.
in short, Kingmaker without building/running the kingdom itself means that the characters are the "field agents" or solvers of problems by way of spell and steel on behalf of their liege lord/lady.
Carrion Crown once fully published is likely to be an excellent multiple-use AP as well.
Welcome to the boards!
Thank you :) .
Wouldn't Kingmaker without the kingdom part be a much less interesting path? I mean, it could certainly still be good, but wouldn't a path specifically designed for the playstyle I'm using be better?
By the way? Your avatr is highly disturbing.
Fraust wrote:
If you go the route of Society modules, the Devil We Know series (four of them if I remember right) I can recommend, and there is one society module that takes place in Facoln's Hollow (same place Hollow's Last Hope takes place in).
I'll consider them, then :) . Thank you.
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As for d20pro...click ** spoiler omitted **...
Hmmm... that sounds unnecessarily fiddly. I'll keep it in mind, but I'll first have to see if I'll ever actually need it before committing $30 to it.
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Serpent's Skull is definitely a path with good replay value. On that note, Carrion Crown would likely go well with your play style. When I played Ravenloft (an older horror setting, in case you're not familiar) we rarely ever used a combat mat. Course, combat was kinda rare to begin with, at least in the traditional sense...
I know Ravenloft, yes :) . My problem with it was that it was too gimmicky. "This domain is ruled by a panther-man vampire! This one is ruled by a wererat bard!" As a coherent setting, it rapidly left behind "dark and gritty" and got into cheese-territory. Now, Planescape - that's a setting I can get behind :D !
Carrion Crown and Serpent's Skull both sound like something close to what I want. To be honest, I'll probably end up with Carrion Crown, since Serpent's Skull has some elements I'm not a fan of.
There is one particular element of Serpent's Skull that might make it worth considering more strongly for your purposes, and that is that it comes with the extra NPC bodies you're looking for built-in. The first adventure, Souls for Smuggler's Shiv, strands the PCs on a tropical island with a group of PC-classed NPCs - a ranger, a fighter, a rogue, a cleric and a bard. It would be extremely easy to use those characters to "fill out" your sister's party as she adventures, and she could even rotate through them as she thinks one or another of the group might be most useful to her at a given point.
I think d20pro is sorta like driving a car...at first the prospect of learning all the fiddly bits are daunting, but once you get used to it you can't imagine living without it...unfortunately, I'm still very much in the learning how to drive camp...
With Ravenloft I think a lot of it is presentation. When I played we didn't deal much with the domain lords, and didn't ever venture into the stranger domains...and the DM (for the latest times I played anyways) was absolutely amazing as far as atmosphere and storytelling ability (he was a little less than impressive in the running combat department, but there wasn't that much anyways). As for my experiences with Planescape, often they were less than impressive, as we ran planescape in junior high...I've looked through the books though, and know there is a lot of potential.
Serpent's Skull is a good Pathfinder-rules- built choice for an AP to get some mileage out of. Kingmaker does not actually require that you build and run a kingdom. The rules are there so that you can. There are sidebars throughout that briefly discuss the general nature of things when the "kingdm in the background option" is in play. You should not need much more than a few post-it notes throughout the entirety of Kingmaker to set it up to your taste.
in short, Kingmaker without building/running the kingdom itself means that the characters are the "field agents" or solvers of problems by way of spell and steel on behalf of their liege lord/lady.
Carrion Crown once fully published is likely to be an excellent multiple-use AP as well.
Welcome to the boards!
Thank you :) .
Wouldn't Kingmaker without the kingdom part be a much less interesting path? I mean, it could certainly still be good, but wouldn't a path specifically designed for the playstyle I'm using be better?
By the way? Your avatr is highly disturbing.
Kingmaker is very very open to "go where you want within [set of instructions X]". I would not recommend it 'out of the gate' for newer players - the wandering monsters can be brutal. The playstyle you have indicated won't need more than those post-it notes to get Kingmaker to work with.
The disturbing nature of my avatar is precisely why I chose it. :)
Just wanted to add something about d20pro. It's 30 bucks for the full program, a judges license (what you use as a GM) and two players licenses. Every player after that is 10 bucks. So for you, your sister, and your girlfriend, it'd be ten apiece. Didn't want to give you the impression it would be 30 for each player and the GM.
Just wanted to add something about d20pro. It's 30 bucks for the full program, a judges license (what you use as a GM) and two players licenses. Every player after that is 10 bucks. So for you, your sister, and your girlfriend, it'd be ten apiece. Didn't want to give you the impression it would be 30 for each player and the GM.
Can I just throw a couple cents in for rptools.net Maptool? It sounds like it has similar functions to d20pro, and its free. I usualy use the basic map/unit/reveal, and not the higher end stuff like macros, but it works well for me, and is, as I said, without cost.
There is one particular element of Serpent's Skull that might make it worth considering more strongly for your purposes, and that is that it comes with the extra NPC bodies you're looking for built-in. The first adventure, Souls for Smuggler's Shiv, strands the PCs on a tropical island with a group of PC-classed NPCs - a ranger, a fighter, a rogue, a cleric and a bard. It would be extremely easy to use those characters to "fill out" your sister's party as she adventures, and she could even rotate through them as she thinks one or another of the group might be most useful to her at a given point.
Having read the Player's Guide, I can see what you mean. However, the truth is that Serpent's Skull contains some themes I'm very hesitant to use (colonialism and "civilized" "European" nations vs. "primitive" "African" ones - that one never ends well), so I probably will shy away from it in favor of something less minefield-y.
Turin the Mad wrote:
Kingmaker is very very open to "go where you want within [set of instructions X]". I would not recommend it 'out of the gate' for newer players - the wandering monsters can be brutal. The playstyle you have indicated won't need more than those post-it notes to get Kingmaker to work with.
The disturbing nature of my avatar is precisely why I chose it. :)
I'll consider Kingmaker, then. I have to admit it looks a bit... bland? From where I'm sitting, which is kinda a put-off, but I'll give the Player's Guide a read-through.
Also, your avatar? Brrr...
Fraust wrote:
Berwim-the-Vampire avatar
Just wanted to add something about d20pro. It's 30 bucks for the full program, a judges license (what you use as a GM) and two players licenses. Every player after that is 10 bucks. So for you, your sister, and your girlfriend, it'd be ten apiece. Didn't want to give you the impression it would be 30 for each player and the GM.
I'd actually kinda assumed that it was $30 for me and an *unlimited* number of players :/ .
Niteflier wrote:
Can I just throw a couple cents in for rptools.net Maptool? It sounds like it has similar functions to d20pro, and its free. I usualy use the basic map/unit/reveal, and not the higher end stuff like macros, but it works well for me, and is, as I said, without cost.
Gonna give that one a look - thank you :) .
I've started my sister on Crypt of the Everflame - she chose to play a Sorcerer, nicely rounding out the Fighter, Rogue and Cleric I'd pre-made. She's gotten past the Orcs, but still has somehow managed not to find the map in her backpack - she hasn't opened it yet, and has no idea what kind of stuff she's carrying. I'm not planning to penalize her for this, though. She seemed to enjoy it, even though she's still pretty shaky on the system and didn't really take much initiative (I think she was "testing out the waters"). It helps that she's a huge Order of the Stick fan, though, so she's familiar with a lot of the terminology involved.
Also, I've decided that Carrion Crown will be my chosen AP.
This means that this thread has essentially played out its purpose, so all that remains is for me to thank you for the very helpful and kind reception I've gotten here, even though I managed to clone my very first thread and then delete the wrong one. Thank you :) .
