Corrupting touch (infernal bloodline power)

[Douglas Muir 406]

The corrupting touch causes the subject to "radiate an aura of evil, as if they were an evil outsider". Presumably this uses the "outsider" column of the Detect Evil spell: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/detect-evil. So, even weak creatures will radiate moderate evil from this.

Questions:

1) Presumably this would override any existing aura, whether of good or of weaker evil. Even a creature with an overwhelming Good aura would detect as evil if it fails its save. Correct?

2) Can the sorceror be affected by his own touch -- say, if he wants to pass for evil among evil creatures? Presumably he would be, but he'd have to suffer the "Shaken" condition as well. Correct?

3) If the sorceror touches a nonevil creature, this creature detects as evil, but it does not become evil for any other purposes. In particular, it's not vulnerable to a paladin's Smite Evil. Correct? (I have a player who just tried this...)

4) Not exactly a rules question, but: how would one describe being hit by a Corrupting Touch? If a PC uses it on an NPC, what does the NPC think just happened to him? Something merely unpleasant, or would it seem "evil"? (Asking in case there ever happen to be any survivors...)

Thanks in advance,

Doug M.

[Fatespinner]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

1) Presumably this would override any existing aura, whether of good or of weaker evil. Even a creature with an overwhelming Good aura would detect as evil if it fails its save. Correct?

Partially correct. The creature would actually cast both auras. Detect good would detect the overwhelming good and detect evil would detect the evil from the touch. This is sure to confuse the hell out of any Inquisitors in the area.

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

2) Can the sorceror be affected by his own touch -- say, if he wants to pass for evil among evil creatures? Presumably he would be, but he'd have to suffer the "Shaken" condition as well. Correct?

I'd allow it. You can always voluntarily fail saving throws against spell effects your WANT to have on you (unless you're a barbarian with the "Superstitious" rage power). This is essentially the same thing, except it's not harmless.

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

3) If the sorceror touches a nonevil creature, this creature detects as evil, but it does not become evil for any other purposes. In particular, it's not vulnerable to a paladin's Smite Evil. Correct? (I have a player who just tried this...)

Correct. The creature must actually BE evil to suffer from smite evil's effects (or any other spell or ability keyed to the evil alignment). Otherwise undetectable alignment would protect a demon from smite evil and that's just silly.

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

4) Not exactly a rules question, but: how would one describe being hit by a Corrupting Touch? If a PC uses it on an NPC, what does the NPC think just happened to him? Something merely unpleasant, or would it seem "evil"? (Asking in case there ever happen to be any survivors...)

I'd sum it up as the target hears disembodied hellish voices talking about how his soul is forfeit and all the horrible things that await him in the afterlife. Seems appropriate for the "shaken" condition to apply. So yes, it would be pretty clearly something "evil."

[Douglas Muir 406]

Fatespinner wrote:

I'd sum it up as the target hears disembodied hellish voices talking about how his soul is forfeit and all the horrible things that await him in the afterlife. Seems appropriate for the "shaken" condition to apply.

I love this idea, and would like to use it. The only problem is, the RAW says you can cause "a creature" to become shaken. If I understand correctly, "creature" includes oozes, plants, vermin and even golems. Should a gelatinous cube fear Hell?

Doug M.

[Fatespinner]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

I love this idea, and would like to use it. The only problem is, the RAW says you can cause "a creature" to become shaken. If I understand correctly, "creature" includes oozes, plants, vermin and even golems. Should a gelatinous cube fear Hell?

Under the "shaken" description in the glossary:

PRD wrote:

Shaken: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

Then in the "Universal Monster Rules" under fear:

PRD wrote:

All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects.

Ergo, corrupting touch is a mind-affecting fear effect. Back to "Universal Monster Rules" for more fun:

PRD wrote:

Construct Traits (Ex) Constructs are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), necromancy effects, paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless). Constructs are not subject to nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain. Constructs are not at risk of death from massive damage.

Wham.

PRD wrote:

Undead Traits (Ex) Undead are immune to death effects, disease, mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, phantasms, and patterns), paralysis, poison, sleep, stun, and any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). Undead are not subject to ability drain, energy drain, or nonlethal damage. Undead are immune to damage or penalties to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. Undead are not at risk of death from massive damage.

Bam.

PRD wrote:

Mindless: No Intelligence score, and immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). An ooze with an Intelligence score loses this trait.

Thank you ma'am. I'm here all week. ;)

[Douglas Muir 406]

Awesome. Exactly what I needed.

So it would affect animals, aberrations, and outsiders, but not plants, oozes or golems. Obviously correct.

Thank you!

Doug M.

[drumlord]

Fatespinner wrote:

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

I love this idea, and would like to use it. The only problem is, the RAW says you can cause "a creature" to become shaken. If I understand correctly, "creature" includes oozes, plants, vermin and even golems. Should a gelatinous cube fear Hell?

Under the "shaken" description in the glossary:

PRD wrote:

Shaken: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

Then in the "Universal Monster Rules" under fear:

PRD wrote:

All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects.

Ergo, corrupting touch is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Not to go resurrecting threads, but I happened to be looking into the infernal bloodline and noticed the mistakes in this thread weren't corrected. The Universal Monster Rules section you posted aren't for any rule that has the word "fear" in it. That wouldn't make sense for players to have to dig into the Bestiary to find out if their bloodline power works. Instead, that rule is for the Fear (su or sp) entries that appear in monster stat blocks. Every Fear (su or sp) entry is a mind-affecting fear effect.

The corrupting touch bloodline power is not indicated as being mind-affecting fear affect so it should work on any creature. I'm pretty sure there are other ways within the rules to cause something to be shaken without it being mind-affecting fear. Considering how consistently they point out when something falls under those rules, I'd say corrupting touch is either in need of an errata or it works on any creature.

[blahpers]

drumlord wrote:

Fatespinner wrote:

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

I love this idea, and would like to use it. The only problem is, the RAW says you can cause "a creature" to become shaken. If I understand correctly, "creature" includes oozes, plants, vermin and even golems. Should a gelatinous cube fear Hell?

Under the "shaken" description in the glossary:

PRD wrote:

Shaken: A shaken character takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. Shaken is a less severe state of fear than frightened or panicked.

Then in the "Universal Monster Rules" under fear:

PRD wrote:

All fear attacks are mind-affecting fear effects.

Ergo, corrupting touch is a mind-affecting fear effect.

Not to go resurrecting threads, but I happened to be looking into the infernal bloodline and noticed the mistakes in this thread weren't corrected. The Universal Monster Rules section you posted aren't for any rule that has the word "fear" in it. That wouldn't make sense for players to have to dig into the Bestiary to find out if their bloodline power works. Instead, that rule is for the Fear (su or sp) entries that appear in monster stat blocks. Every Fear (su or sp) entry is a mind-affecting fear effect.

The corrupting touch bloodline power is not indicated as being mind-affecting fear affect so it should work on any creature. I'm pretty sure there are other ways within the rules to cause something to be shaken without it being mind-affecting fear. Considering how consistently they point out when something falls under those rules, I'd say corrupting touch is either in need of an errata or it works on any creature.

I want to say that this is wrong, but I can't find the RAW to support it. Apparently fear effects aren't always mind-affecting. (Yeah, try and figure that out.) Most fear-inspiring spells have the mind-affecting descriptor, but that bloodline power does not.