Formerly the Demonic Initiate back in 3.5.
You need 7 ranks in various skills to take it, meaning you can't start before level 8. 3/4 BAB, one good save. d8 hit die. You gain no spells at 1st level; after that, it's +1 caster level. So you're giving up a spellcaster level. What do you get?
-- Damned. You are damned.
-- Demonic mark. A "tattoo-like brand" of your patron demon's symbol, somewhere on your body. Lets you cast one spell/day with the chaotic and evil descriptors and without expending the spell. Unfortunately, the chaotic and evil descriptors are pretty useless, so basically it's "you get to cast one of your spells again once/day".
-- Obedience. You must regularly perform a ritual, usually unpleasant or disgusting, to keep your powers and to gain a minor bonus (like, +4 vs. illusions, or +4 vs. wind or weather spells). Different one for each demon lord.
-- at second level, "Energumen". (Which is a real, and awesome, word.) Gives you a +2 profane bonus to any one state of your choice. Nice, but (1) only lasts for one round/demoniac level, and (2) after it's over, you're confused (DC 25 Will save) for an equal number of rounds.
-- at 3d level, you get a "demonic boon", which is either an additional first level spell 3x/day, a second level spell 2x/day, or a third level spell once/day. The specific spells depend on your demon lord -- i.e., if you serve Lamashtu you can get lesser confusion 3x/day, touch of idiocy 2x/day, or summon monster III once. Each demon lord has its own Obedience and its own set of boons, so in a sense you're getting 20 PrCs for the price of one. That's clever! Unfortunately, it's not clever enough to make this PrC interesting otherwise.
-- at 4th level, you get Summon Demon (Summon Monster VI once per day for a succubus or 1-3 babaus).
I'll stop there, because this is the point where I said "wait, this is not very good". I tried creating an NPC using this class (see [url=http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/advice/gnomeAlchemistDemoniac details here[/url]) and, well, he kinda sucked. Or to be more precise, having a couple of demoniac levels did nothing for him -- he was noticeably weaker than if he'd continued with his favored class. A single extra spell/day was no replacement for losing an entire spell level plus bonus feats, and energumen's short duration and crippling aftereffect made it almost useless.
Adding a couple more levels helps, but it's still pretty meh. A 3rd level demoniac is at least 10th level, so adding 1-3 low-level spells from a preset list is not a significant power boost. A 4th level demoniac is getting a fixed casting of Summon Monster VI, which is already a spell available to a normal 11th level spellcaster. If you'd stuck with your primary spellcasting progression, you'd have this power anyway, and a bunch of other sixth level spell options as well.
At higher levels you get Demonic Boon 2 and Demonic Boon 3, which are actually pretty good -- Demonic Boon 3 is stuff like "empowered Blade Barrier once/day", "quickened Insect Plague once/day", and "call forth an elder fire elemental, which serves you for one hour". Except that by the time you get boons 2 and 3 you're already 13th and 16th level, respectively. These are not particularly awesome abilities for a 16th level character. They're not bad, but they're certainly not worth suffering through eight levels of being very so-so.
The other problem here is that it's /bland/. Even the illustration is a generic-looking cultist (robe, check; hood, check; sacrificial knife, check). There's nothing here that makes me think "whoa, this would be a cool NPC". I can forgive it being weakish -- I have the impression that the Pathfinder designers are being conservative with their PrCs, possibly as a reaction against the grotesque excesses of late-period 3.5. (Hey, remember the Tainted Scholar from Heroes of Horror? DC 43 Fireballs, DC 45 Phantasmal Killers?) I can live with that. But I'd like a PrC to have a little more... pop.
Next up: possible fixes.
Doug M.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
If you stacked it with a non-full caster class, no wonder it sucked.
Gorbacz wrote: If you stacked it with a non-full caster class, no wonder it sucked. I made two tries -- the alchemist (that you see) and a wizard. The sorceror was just about as bad.
Thinking about it, a sorceror might be the least bad way to go here. Still not great, though.
Doug M.
Sorry, "the wizard was just about as bad".
It was a Necromancer 7 / Demoniac 4. Lost a feat, 1 ECL, two 6th level spells and a 3rd level spell in return for Energumen (pretty useless), one 3rd level spell (not of my choice), Summon Demon (could have had anyway) and the wizard mark thing (one extra spell/day).
It's not grotesquely awful, but it's just not as good as sticking with straight wizard would have been.
Doug M.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Also, to expand.
Demonic Mark allows you to cast and re-cast ANY spell, not just chaotic/evil ones.
Energumen at 7th level translates to +3 to spell DC, which is pretty freaking awesome. By 7th round, most fights are over, so confusion isn't a big deal. Just have a buddy with protection from evil nearby.
Gorbacz wrote:
Demonic Mark allows you to cast and re-cast ANY spell, not just chaotic/evil ones.
Duly noted. It adds the chaotic and evil descriptors as well. Which is thematically nice, but practically pretty worthless.
Gorbacz wrote:
Energumen at 7th level translates to +3 to spell DC, which is pretty freaking awesome. By 7th round, most fights are over, so confusion isn't a big deal. Just have a buddy with protection from evil nearby.
I'd agree that by 7th level you're starting to cook with gas. But up to that point, it's pretty worthless. At (say) 4th level you get a whopping +1 to spell DCs for four whole rounds, after which point you go insane. That doesn't seem so great.
As I've said, the class is backloaded -- if you take it to 9th or 10th level, it's not that bad (though IMO still not as good as straight favored class). But the first few levels are really weak.
Doug M.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I'd beg to disagree on DC increase. +1 DC to all spell DCs (and whatever else that runs off the ability, eg. Wis saves if you are a Cleric) is very powerful compared to, say, Spell Focus. Four rounds is also more than enough for most fights.
There are also other uses for the ability, such as emergency healing (boost your Con).
It's actually one of my fave Paizo PrCs and shows a nice increase in design quality compared to, say, Shackles Pirate from the old CS *cough*.
Gorbacz wrote: I'd beg to disagree on DC increase. +1 DC to all spell DCs (and whatever else that runs off the ability, eg. Wis saves if you are a Cleric) is very powerful compared to, say, Spell Focus. Four rounds is also more than enough for most fights.
There are also other uses for the ability, such as emergency healing (boost your Con).
I spotted the emergency healing, yah. I'd allow it to be used as an immediate action. (Demoniac is knocked down to negative hp -> starts to collaps -> rises again, infused with horrible energy!) Nice, but pretty conditional. (Demoniac turns to flee, is cut down by AoO.)
I'd disagree about the four rounds -- but put that aside. You're saying 4 rounds of Energumen is better than a feat, and I might agree. But it's still not nearly enough to make up for losing that caster level. Would you rather have +1 DCs on your fifth level spells for 4 rounds, or those two sixth level spells you've had your eye on?
-- I have some ideas about tweaking this class that I'm going to apply IMC. (Because I like the underlying idea well enough.) I'll post them here shortly, and you can tell me if I'm completely off track. Fair enough?
Doug M.
Okay, so the Demoniac, while not awful, is weakish and a bit bland. What to do?
Possible fixes: First off, make this class available at 7th level rather than 8th. That's easily done -- just reduce the skill requirements to 6 ranks instead of 7. Now Summon Demon kicks in at 10th level, and your demonic boons at 9th / 12th / 15th. That makes these okay-to-good instead of meh-to-okay.
Second, double the duration on Energumen. It's a nice idea but right now it's almost useless for the first couple of levels. Remember, you're going to have a very violent attack of the giggles (DC 25 Confusion) once it stops.
Third, buff up the pointless "gains chaotic and evil descriptors" from your demon mark. Maybe have your spell DC increase for that one spell, or have it do +1 hp/die of damage against lawful or good targets. Or replace all damage with unholy damage. "Immune to fire, my druid friend? But nothing is immune to the corrupting power of... THE ABYSS!" Or gain a free level of metamagic, on this one spell/day only, for every three demoniac levels you carry. This should be your signature attack, so let's make it shine.
Fourth, give the demoniac a Demon Graft from page 42 at, say, 5th or 6th level. Come on: you're a loyal servant of Pazuzu, stringing up intestines every day. You deserve a glowing red demonic eye, or a long forked tongue, or a scaly talon like the deformed claw of some huge, hideous predator bird in place of your right hand.
-- Okay, that for the power-up. For making it flavorful... well, every DM has their own ideas, and what makes me say "whoa" may leave another cold. But here's my first thought.
The demon mark is a good idea. Let's build on it. When you take your first level as demoniac, you must choose to have your demon mark either concealed (i.e., on a part of your body normally hidden by clothes) or obvious (i.e., on your face). An obvious demon mark grants you a +2 bonus on charisma checks against chaotic or evil creatures, or +4 against worshippers of your particular demon lord. Against lawful or good creatures, you suffer a corresponding -2, or -4 if they know the mark's significance (DC 20 Knowledge: Religion or Knowledge: Arcana). Most lawful or good creatures will begin with an attitude of Hostile towards the bearer of an obvious demon mark.
When you use a demoniac class power (demonic boon, energumen, or casting a spell through your mark), your demonic mark will writhe hideously and glow with a revolting luminescence. Any creature within 20' that can see this and that has fewer levels/hit dice than you must save (Will, 10 + your spellcaster level/2 + your Cha bonus) or be shaken for one round.
Starting at your 4th demoniac level, you can cause the demon mark to crawl around your body at will. Switching it from concealed to obvious, or vice versa, is a full round action.
At 6th demoniac level, you can "bud" your mark off onto another, creating a servant mark. This is a full-round action requiring close skin-to-skin contact and provoking an AoO. An unwilling subject gets a Will save. Treat this like a succubus' profane gift power: you can communicate telepathically with the subject, you can cast your demon mark spell through the servant mark, and the target gains a +2 profane bonus to one attribute of your choice. The mark is removed by Dispel Evil or Dispel Chaos, or you can remove the mark as a free action, causing 2d6 Cha damage. You can maintain a number of servant marks equal to your Cha bonus (but always at least one).
[Thematically, the point here is to let the Demoniac graduate from cultist to leader of a cult. It also makes a Demoniac a potential boss -- PCs start running into / fighting / killing off cultists with these weird marks, and one thing leads to another.]
If you cast a demon mark spell against a subject who wears your servant mark, they save at -4. A subject who wants to expel the mark can attempt to do so; this is a full-round action that can be attempted once per day. Success requires a Will save (DC 10 + your spellcaster level/2 + your Cha bonus). Failure will result in the subject being nauseated for 2d6 rounds. You will always be aware of the status of your marks, including successful or failed attempts to remove them.
[Traumatized subject is the magically enslaved victim of a demon cultist. PCs may at first mistake the poor victim for another cultist -- look, she's got the mark! Hook, season to taste.]
What else... oh, a demoniac should surely have an aura of chaos/evil like a paladin or cleric. (Not necessarily a good thing for the demoniac, to be sure.) And I'd consider throwing in something like the Corrupting Touch that infernal bloodline sorcerors have. This would be for chrome rather than for serious use; it's like, demoniac grabs a lower level cultist or a victim, victim starts screaming. Make it a full-round action provoking an AoO, and have the touch inflict pain that leaves the victim shaken if he has at least half the hit dice/level of the demoniac, nauseated otherwise.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
I know this is rather late in reply, I can tell just by looking through the demoniac class that you are better off taking the obedience Feat and getting the boons.
In tweaking the class, how about these ideas:
1. A demoniac have two good and 1 bad save depending on its patron.
2. Expand the number of boons that each demon lord grants:
Least, Lesser, Intermediate, Major, Greater, and Epic (at 20th level).
3. The demoniac can summon demons and creatures associated with the demon lords he or she serves.
4. Spellcasters rec'd a level of spell-casting ability while non-spellcasters rec'd a bonus feat. Alternately, the bonus feat must come from a select list that depends on the individual demon lord.
5. At certain levels, the demoniac gains ability bonuses according to its patron, those who worship Nocticula may gain +2 in Charisma, Kostchthcie in Strength, etc.
6. At 10th level the demoniac may undergoes an apotheosis, he or she becames a plant like Cyth-V'sug, undead like Zura, a lycanthrope like Jezelda, gain the Earth sub-type like Xovaren, or he or she becames a native outsider with the chaos and evil sub-type. Some may even gain the fiendish or half-fiend template.
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