Outsider class skills

[reefwood]

Quote:

Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.

I have noticed that not all Outsiders have 4 additional class skills listed. Does this simply mean that these Outsiders have less than 4 "creature theme" class skills? Or should the DM select the remaining ones, if for whatever reason, a monster wants to place skill ranks somewhere else?

[Talynonyx]

They probably just haven't put skills in those, though it seems weird. If you are advancing or changing an outsider, just pick it yourself.

[Josh M Foster]

reefwood wrote:

Quote:

Skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for outsiders: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (planes), Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth. Due to their varied nature, outsiders also receive 4 additional class skills determined by the creature's theme.

I have noticed that not all Outsiders have 4 additional class skills listed. Does this simply mean that these Outsiders have less than 4 "creature theme" class skills? Or should the DM select the remaining ones, if for whatever reason, a monster wants to place skill ranks somewhere else?

GM should select, unless it's a PC monster, in which case have your GM read this:

For your GM only:

Be careful with this. Balancing standard races and monster races is very very very hard. These campaigns can be fun, just make sure everyone is having fun.

For monsters from the books, the class skills have already been applied in their descriptions. Perhaps a PC Hound Archon or Kyton could choose different ones, but for the most part the work has been done.

Keep in mind that creatures without a racial hit die, like tieflings, do not get these. The 6+INT and choose extra class skills are skills for the outsider racial hit die. They do not apply to class levels.

[reefwood]

Thanks for the replies. I am the DM in this instance, and I am not looking to change class skills. Just fill in the ones that have apparently been left blank.

A PC in my game is taking a Hound Archon cohort with the Leadership feat, and this creature appears to only have 3 (Acrobatics, Intimidate, Survival) out of 4 "creature theme" class skills listed in its description, so I'm trying to figure out what (if anything) the 4th one would be. The 3 so far are all based on different ability modifiers...though, I guess they are all skills that I could see being useful to an animal (jumping around, being tough, making its way in the wild)... so maybe I should just base the last "creature theme" class skill off similar criteria?

[Josh M Foster]

reefwood wrote:

Thanks for the replies. I am the DM in this instance, and I am not looking to change class skills. Just fill in the ones that have apparently been left blank.

A PC in my game is taking a Hound Archon cohort with the Leadership feat, and this creature appears to only have 3 (Acrobatics, Intimidate, Survival) out of 4 "creature theme" class skills listed in its description, so I'm trying to figure out what (if anything) the 4th one would be. The 3 so far are all based on different ability modifiers...though, I guess they are all skills that I could see being useful to an animal (jumping around, being tough, making its way in the wild)... so maybe I should just base the last "creature theme" class skill off similar criteria?

Make sure you're not forgetting anything like armor check penalty when calculating what the mod should be, still, sometimes there are math errors. If the numbers still aren't adding up just try to choose something thematic. Fighter class skills are a good place to look, Paladin, too.

[reefwood]

Alorha wrote:

Make sure you're not forgetting anything like armor check penalty when calculating what the mod should be, still, sometimes there are math errors. If the numbers still aren't adding up just try to choose something thematic. Fighter class skills are a good place to look, Paladin, too.

It was actually calculation confusion that first made me aware of the Outsider "creature theme" class skills, but this happened with another creature. I couldn't get its skill numbers to add up properly until someone told me about the "creature theme" class skills, and then, it all worked out fine.

Anyway, in terms of sticking with the "wild" theme, I thought Swim would fit. For some reason, I don't picture a Hound Archon being much of a swimmer, they can turn into dogs, and it seems like dogs know how to swim. Although, another idea I had was to make it Knowledge (nature). As an Outsider, it already has Knowledge (planes) as a class skill that it hasn't put any ranks into, so I thought another Knowledge (that a standard version of the creature puts no ranks into) would be fitting and give it some insight into its animal side.