Disguise self


Rules Questions


So i have scoured the internet in hopes of finding an answer to these question, but all I can find is people almost answering the questions but not quite.

First - Using disguise self to make yourself look like someone else, any random guy is fine, and talking to someone when do they get a saving throw? If ever. They are just talking. No touching, no felling, just conversation back and forth. The person does not know the person that the image appears to be, two total strangers talking to each other.

Is talking considered interaction? If talking is interaction does he just get one save for talking as an interaction and then if he fails that one he gets no more saves? Or does he get a save every round or in some sort of time frame as he is continuing to interact with it by talking?

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volanir wrote:


Is talking considered interaction? If talking is interaction does he just get one save for talking as an interaction and then if he fails that one he gets no more saves? Or does he get a save every round or in some sort of time frame as he is continuing to interact with it by talking?

They have to interact with the spell. Not the recipient. Talking gets you no save. Touching the face would. Examining closely might, but not just from conversation, they have to be examining for signs of a disguise or illusion.


What Alorha said.

disguise self wrote:
The spell does not ... alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.

Interacting would be doing something that could reasonably reveal the galmor is fake. Just looking isn't enough, would have to be touch or if the noises the guy makes doesn't match the looks, like if they appear to wear robes but are clinking and clanking because they're actually wearing platemail.

It's a +10 to the disguise skill check. Only minor details different is another +5 to the check (but plate disguised as cloth I'd not count as minor), so the observer would have to roll perception against a DC of d20+skill+ either +10 or +15. If they see through the disguise I'd also count that as interaction allowing a save. If they still fail, the guy still looks the per the disguise, but the observer still knows it's fake.


Its odd that the way to get a save would be to expect a person to reach out and touch this complete stranger.

So if thats the case with disguise self, would the same be with case be the same with something like Major image? They would have to touch it to get a save? Or would talking be interacting with an image?


illusion = ekk, ask you DM. Each has there own idea how these are handled.


Helps to think of it like a scene in a movie. Look at any sci-fi/fantasy/comedy with evil twins or shape shifters or people in disguise. If there's a tipoff that you in the audience would say that should make someone suspicious, I'd rule that a save worthy interaction.


It really is up to the DM what consists of "interaction". By the strictest interpretation, you would need to actually touch the illusion to get a save. Reasonably in the past I've allowed a person talking to someone using disguise self to make a sense motive check (vs the better of the caster's disguise or bluff roll) to notice something is amiss - and earn a will save. It's a bit convoluted, but it's worked ok for us.


volanir wrote:

So i have scoured the internet in hopes of finding an answer to these question, but all I can find is people almost answering the questions but not quite.

First - Using disguise self to make yourself look like someone else, any random guy is fine, and talking to someone when do they get a saving throw? If ever. They are just talking. No touching, no felling, just conversation back and forth. The person does not know the person that the image appears to be, two total strangers talking to each other.

Is talking considered interaction? If talking is interaction does he just get one save for talking as an interaction and then if he fails that one he gets no more saves? Or does he get a save every round or in some sort of time frame as he is continuing to interact with it by talking?

I didn't see the forum myself, but I recently read Treantmonk's PF guide to wizards in which he alludes to an unofficial clarification from one of the designers, that you have to touch an illusion to interact with it.

This seems especially reasonable in this instance, because the person you are trying to fool, is already likely to get to make opposed perception or sense motive roles against your diguise or bluff, depending on circumstances etc. It would be a pretty terrible waste of a spell if you had to work to come up with a plausible disguise scenario, they got a d20 to save, then you roll a d20 on a skill check verses their opposed d20 roll. Basically that would instantly give the spell 3 chances to automatically fail and therefore punish you for trying to do something creative when you could just have another casting of magic missile.

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