Owlbear Change; 6 player group


Kingmaker

Liberty's Edge

I'm a bit disappointed in the Owlbear stats as presented, so I am thinking of running the owl bear below instead for 6 PCs. (Below in spoiler)
Let me know what you think.

Notes: They have a well balanced & geared group and this is the only major encounter left for them in the book.

OWLBEAR SPOILER:

Lower DPS, more Armor/ HP. I will probally run TWO of these as a mated pair, since we are 6 players.

Owlbear Advanced CR 9
XP 6400
Neutral Huge Magical beast
Init +7; Senses Darkvision 60, Low-light Vision, Scent; Perception +23
DEFENSE
AC 21, Touch 11, flat footed 18 (+ Studded Leather, + Shield, none)
(+3 Dex, +7 Natural, -2 size, +3 armour)
hp 175 (14d10+98);
Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +7
OFFENSE
Speed 30
Melee
Single Attack Claw +20 (1d8+8)
Full Attack
2 Claw +20 (1d8+8)
Bite +20 (2d6+8)
Space 15ft (3x3)ft.; Reach 10ft (2)ft.
Special Attacks
Improved Grab
STATISTICS
Str 26, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 8, Wis 16, Chr 14
Base Attack 14 CMB 24; CMD 37
Feats
Awesome Blow: -4 from attack deliver awesome blow knock back 10 ft and prone DC=damage dealt (reflex),
Combat Reflexes: Dex mod additional attacks of opportunity,
Great Fortitude: +2 Fortitude save,
Improved Bull rush: +2 to Bull rush CM and CMD ; no attack of opportunity,
Improved Initiative: +4 Initiative checks,
Power Attack: Subtract from to hit add to damage,
Skill focus (Perception): +3 perception
Skills Perception 23
Languages None


cyrusduane wrote:

I'm a bit disappointed in the Owlbear stats as presented, so I am thinking of running the owl bear below instead for 6 PCs. (Below in spoiler)

Let me know what you think.

Notes: They have a well balanced & geared group and this is the only major encounter left for them in the book.

** spoiler omitted **

Combat stats look fine.

If your group is optimized and not standard 15 point point buy, I suggest raising the hit points substantially.

I ran a group that included a monk zen archer/ranger, invulnverable rager barbarian, two-hander fighter, druid/mage/mystic theurge, and life oracle healer with their three henchmen: wizard evoker, bard, and fighter/wizard, and they crushed it even though I gave it 600 hit points. If your group synergizes well, they'll go through 175 hit points in a round or two. And the offensive capabilities of the bear will not come close to harming them with the offensive output of 6 optimized players beating on it.


Greetings fellow travellers.

You might also want to check this thread for a conversion of KM to be suitable for 6 players.

Ruyan.

Sovereign Court

I wish Paizo would sticky those already darn it...

For your convenience (perhaps for comparison :)) heres the 6 player conversion owlbear.

Stats:

Enraged Giant Owlbear CR 10
XP 9,600
Advanced owlbear (Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 224, 294)
N Huge magical beast
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent; Perception +17

Defense
AC 20, touch 8, flat-footed 18 (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +9 natural, –2 rage, –2 size)
hp 148 (11d10+88)
Fort +15, Ref +9, Will +9

Offense
Speed 30 ft.
Melee 2 claws +20 (2d6+11 plus grab), bite +20 (1d8+11)
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.

Tactics
During Combat The Owlbear lashes out at the nearest opponent, attempting to grapple and rend its chosen victim until dead. If it takes more than 15 points of damage from a single attack, the Owlbear sends that attacker flying with an Awesome Blow.

Morale Enraged beyond all reason, the Owlbear fights to the death.

Statistics
Str 32, Dex 14, Con 26, Int 2, Wis 16, Cha 14
Base Atk +11; CMB +24; CMD 36 (40 vs. trip)
Feats Awesome Blow, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Power Attack, Improved Natural Attack (Claws)
Skills Perception +17
SQ curse of rage
Gear masterwork studded leather barding

Special Abilities
Curse of Rage The huge owlbear is still under the after-effects of the cursed ring of bestial friendship. This curse effect is persistent until it is dispelled or removed, and functions at CL 5th. Full details of how the owlbear came to be cursed and how the curse manipulates its mind are given in Treasure below.

I do think the damage output is simply too low in your proposed version, its just a high HP roadblock to 6th level PC's- perhaps give it some form of rend to compensate for the lower claw damage?

Liberty's Edge

6 PCs are actually toward the low side for us. We usually range 6 to 10 (when all the occasional players drop in)

As a result, I've had to get used to switching stats back and forth in the APs. What I've noticed is that usually when an encounter calls for a single creature, upping that single creature's stats proportionality to the increased number of PCs never works out well. The best way to scale usually includes upping both core stats and adding a creature or creatures to support the encounter.

With the "Tag team" pair in my above stats, I see the mated pair batting prey back and forth, into each other's threatened areas.

If I drop the Armor or HP, I think they will just unload everything in the first round, with a good chance of one dying and the other severely injured before the owlbears take any action.

I'll tinker with it again and come back. Good suggestions.

Liberty's Edge

I think this will provide a more memorable that my previous version;

Owl Bear, Mark 2:

Staying away from the engage, because of the "glass cannon" effect it creates on a low AC base creature.

Main changes: One more HD, Improved bull rush, tactic change.

Once again, a mated pair of the two of these. I see the encounter starting with the out-of-sight Male owlbear bullrushing the farthest-in PC to the past the Female's Attacks of opportunity. (Driving a prey to the back of the cave)

That should be scary as hell, but I see the female landing 6 attacks right off the bat.(3 normal, 3 opportunity) I was tempted to up the STR more, but I think the animal-level tactics will compensate.

Ideally, this way the encounter will last for at least three rounds and represent a significant threat.

Owlbear Advanced CR 9
XP 6400
Neutral Huge Magical beast
Init +7; Senses Darkvision 60, Low-light Vision, Scent; Perception +24
DEFENSE
AC 24, Touch 11, flat footed 21 (+ Breastplate, + Shield, none)
(+3 Dex, +7 Natural, -2 size, +6 armour)
hp 187 (15d10+105);
Fort +18, Ref +12, Will +8
OFFENSE
Speed 20
Melee
Single Attack Claw +21 (1d8+8)
Full Attack
2 Claw +21 (1d8+8)
Bite +21 (2d6+8)
Space 15ft (3x3)ft.; Reach 10ft (2)ft.
Special Attacks
Improved Grab
STATISTICS
Str 26, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 8, Wis 16, Chr 14
Base Attack 15 CMB 25; CMD 38
Feats
Awesome Blow: -4 from attack deliver awesome blow knock back 10 ft and prone DC=damage dealt (reflex),
Combat Reflexes: Dex mod additional attacks of opportunity,
Great Fortitude: +2 Fortitude save,
Greater Bull Rush: Enemies you bull rush provoke AOO,
Improved Bull rush: +2 to Bull rush CM and CMD ; no attack of opportunity,
Improved Initiative: +4 Initiative checks,
Power Attack: Subtract from to hit add to damage,
Skill focus (Perception): +3 perception
Skills Perception 24


The owlbear as written was actually a very tough fight for my PCs (a group of three fairly well min/maxed characters). Everyone ended up in the single digit hit points, and at least one character went down. I would have killed the party had I not had the owlbear switching its target every time it got hit for over 15 hp.

Either of the CR 10 or 9 versions looks pretty good. Though I tend to find that simply buffing up monsters for more PCs doesn't quite cut it. What about instead adding three still living normal owlbears? (Instead of two dead babies and one starved baby.)

Edit: Just saw you intend to do a mated pair of the CR 9s. I think that would do it.

The Exchange

I've got a group of 6 well balanced PC's. They haven't met the owlbear yet, but I did test run it using AK's version. The owlbear took out one character and almost a second (negative hp), while not touching the spellcasters and ranged attackers. I can see this being a nasty fight, but that was me test running it with the NPC kingdom leaders who were left defending the capital, the player's choices will not be the same as mine and the characters are different. Acutally, the only thing that saved the NPC's was that the cleric had a calming domain power.

I originally planned to add rend if it hits with both claw attacks. I was also considering adding hit points. The reason for this is because the players characters have more heavy hitters than the NPC's. But after reading the above comments, I'm thinking that adding a single "normal" owlbear will accomplish the desired effect instead. It will be a yearling that still lives with its parents.


Maddigan wrote:
cyrusduane wrote:

I'm a bit disappointed in the Owlbear stats as presented, so I am thinking of running the owl bear below instead for 6 PCs. (Below in spoiler)

Let me know what you think.

Notes: They have a well balanced & geared group and this is the only major encounter left for them in the book.

** spoiler omitted **

Combat stats look fine.

If your group is optimized and not standard 15 point point buy, I suggest raising the hit points substantially.

I ran a group that included a monk zen archer/ranger, invulnverable rager barbarian, two-hander fighter, druid/mage/mystic theurge, and life oracle healer with their three henchmen: wizard evoker, bard, and fighter/wizard, and they crushed it even though I gave it 600 hit points. If your group synergizes well, they'll go through 175 hit points in a round or two. And the offensive capabilities of the bear will not come close to harming them with the offensive output of 6 optimized players beating on it.

I increased it's hit point for my group to max + 50%. They still cut through the thing in 4 rounds with only one of the Leadership NPCs getting taken out but not killed.

Liberty's Edge

They will be facing it this weekend. I'll post the results afterwards. I'm re-tooling the rest of the cave's population to fit a bit better into our game, but also so I don't have to field any questions like "... so why was X living next to Y?"

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