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So, in looking at the Pathfinder Changelings as introduced in Carrion Crown, I've noted a couple of interesting things that aren't made entirely clear. Here are the stats as a reference:
- Hulking Changeling: A changeling who was born of an annis hag is much more physically formidable than other changelings. You receive a +1 trait bonus on any damage you inflict with a melee attack.
- Green Widow: A changeling of green hag descent is naturally able to lure in potential mates and effectively trick them into pursuing her. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Bluff checks made against characters that might be sexually attracted to you.
- Sea Lungs: A changeling with a sea hag mother can survive underwater for longer than usual. You gain the ability to hold your breath for a number of rounds equal to three times your Constitution score instead of two.
60 feet.
According to their ecology, they can resemble member's of any race, dependent on the father's race. My questions related to that are this:
1) What aging scale do they use? Do they age as a member of their father's race, or do Changeling's have their own aging scale?
2) What subtype are they? According to the sample stat block given, Changelings are Humanoids without a subtype, meaning they might not be affected by Favored Enemy or Bane abilities. Do they have the same subtype as their parents, a Shapeshifter subtype, a combination thereof, or something new?
3) Could a Changeling with an Elf father take the Arcane Archer prestige class, would they be hurt by Elf-Bane weapons, and would a Ranger with Favored Enemy Humanoid (Elf) have bonuses against them? Can they take Race-specific feats or traits? Do they change size to be Small if fathered by a Gnome, Halfling, or Goblin?
If there's another thread or blog post that talks about this, could somebody re-direct me to it? Thanks in advance.
The core races are the only ones with actual age limits listed. All of the 0HD races never have this information available.
A changeling is its own race and should have its own scale.
They would be humanoid(changeling).
They are their own race. They get nothing from the father except appearance. This(the ability to have different races provide a father) is mostly fluff so you can change their appearance. If there was a mechanical benefit it would have been mentioned.
The core races are the only ones with actual age limits listed. All of the 0HD races never have this information available.
A changeling is its own race and should have its own scale.
They would be humanoid(changeling).
They are their own race. They get nothing from the father except appearance. This(the ability to have different races provide a father) is mostly fluff so you can change their appearance. If there was a mechanical benefit it would have been mentioned.
At the very least, I'd say they have the 'adopted' trait. IE: They can pick a racial trait of their host species lineage.
At the very least, I'd say they have the 'adopted' trait. IE: They can pick a racial trait of their host species lineage.The core races are the only ones with actual age limits listed. All of the 0HD races never have this information available.
A changeling is its own race and should have its own scale.
They would be humanoid(changeling).
They are their own race. They get nothing from the father except appearance. This(the ability to have different races provide a father) is mostly fluff so you can change their appearance. If there was a mechanical benefit it would have been mentioned.
I would allow a player to use that trait also, but I don't think it is RAW or RAI.
I would allow a player to use that trait also, but I don't think it is RAW or RAI.Uh...why not? It lets a Half-Orc get a Human only trait, why wouldn't it allow a Changeling to?
I am not saying a changeling can not take the trait. My point was that the only thing the changeling gets is what is in the book.
I took the previous post to mean that the trait was given as a freebie since the OP was specifically asking does the humanoid side affect the base creature, and it does not unless you get the trait, but the trait is not a base feature since traits are optional rules.
Base features=things NPC's and PC's get by RAW(not including optional rules).
I would allow a player to use that trait also, but I don't think it is RAW or RAI.Uh...why not? It lets a Half-Orc get a Human only trait, why wouldn't it allow a Changeling to?I am not saying a changeling can not take the trait. My point was that the only thing the changeling gets is what is in the book.
I took the previous post to mean that the trait was given as a freebie since the OP was specifically asking does the humanoid side affect the base creature, and it does not unless you get the trait, but the trait is not a base feature since traits are optional rules.
Base features=things NPC's and PC's get by RAW(not including optional rules).
I was referring to the fact that a changling PC would be able to take that trait automatically, due to the fluff about changlings. He might not, but it's one of the few traits that would not need GM approval, I think, based on the fluff.
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This is part of the problem I was running into. I know one can house-rule this stuff one way or the other, but I was looking for an official position. Also, part of what drives some of the questions:
Changeling subtype: There isn't any subtype listed for the sample Changeling given with the race. Most, if not all, other 0HD races list some type-subtype, which is why I ask what a Changeling's subtype would be. Given their fluff, I also wouldn't think it unreasonable for them to be like the other Half-races and subtype as a member of the father race. Strictly RAW, a Changeling can never be affected by a Bane ability or Favored Enemy, because RAW they have no subtype, and both effects require selection of a subtype.
Race Qualification: Half-Elves and Half-Orcs both count as members of both races (Human and other parent) for any purpose related to race. That means they can automatically take traits from either race without taking the Adopted trait, they can enter prestige classes for either parent race (Half-Elves and Arcane Archer, for example), and be affected by Favored Enemy or Bane effects for either race (Orc-bane weapons will hit Orcs and Half-Orcs, but not Humans). According to fluff, a Changeling is effectively the same thing as a Half-Elf or Half-Orc except with more potential options as far as what the Half-race is. It is possible to have Half-Goblin Changelings, Half-Orc Changelings, Half-Elf Changelings, Half-Gnome Changelings, etc. A Changeling could Half-race with "any type of humanoid," "[d]epending on the race of her father," RAW. Even if the other Half-Races are their own race and can breed true, they still count as members of both parent races. In the case of Changelings, they don't breed true due to the lack of male population. They might be able to breed true with members of the father-race, however. Also, given that Changelings have no inherent culture or society except what they are raised in. It would make sense that they'd count as members of the raising racial society or parent race, even if that only meant they counted as Humans. I'm just looking for a mechanical call-out specifically that Changelings either get or do not get any mechanical benefit. I agree, it should have been called out, but so should a specific lack of mechanical benefit.
why every time i read something about the mechanics of the game, theres a chicken one crying about to pray and knee before the rules?
dude, that rule, if dont fit with you or youll dming feels so bad about that...
then change it until you like it...
remember this and think about it:
every rule are unfinished, every rule got finished on your table game
--- Judas (Myself)
or like another great one says:
a bunch of books and rules, looses their value without a criteria
---Gary Gygaz
Sorry people, seems like sweep my finger on the keyboard
Gary Gygax
and here, the complete text only for you wimpy cray ruler:
Lol (just gettin laffing, dont get me wrong)
Gary words of wisdom:
From my perspective wanting less in the way of rules constraints comes from being a veteran Game Master who feels confident that more good material comes from imagination and player interaction with the environment than from textbook rules material.
---gary gygax
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Yeah sorry I have little respect for GG beyond a nod for the basic system that has evolved beyond him.