I am playing an oracle of bones in my current campaign and just hit level 3. I took the raise the dead revalation at level 1 and it has been very useful.
However, I am having trouble finding good creatures to zombify or skeletonize as I progress. At level 2 I used a skeleton horse, and it was pretty effective.
So im looking for suggestions on creatures to use, and what the best creatures at each level would be. I basicly only use them for combat, so im looking for creatures that can dish out big hits.
Ive also noticed that zombies seem to be slightly less useful for this, due to their bonus HDs. Those HD mean you would have to summon a lower level creature than you normaly would. anyone else run into this?
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There are some decent necromancer guides out there (once you weed out all the Diablo ones) that offer advice on ideal critters to skeletonize or zombify.
Note that their advice does not necessarily apply to Pathfinder! It's fun to read them, but almost anything that was great back then is much different now.
For instance, a skeleton lion/tiger/leopard in 'the old days' kept access to pounce and rake. In Pathfinder, these are special attacks, and are explicitly not counted. So big cats are still not bad skeletons, but they aren't as sexy as they were in 3.X.
Similarly, hydras were the gold standard of zombies, since they had supernatural level powers listed for some comical reason as 'Exceptional' (like fast healing and regrowing heads and, best of all, five to twelve attacks as a standard action, which, as a zombie, might be all they get). In Pathfinder, none of that stuff is guaranteed (and the fast healing / head regrowth is absolutely out).
For skeletons, dire apes, bears (mundane and dire), various big cats (cheetah, leopard, lion, tiger, and dire versions thereof), wolverines, dire badgers, eagles, some dinosaurs (deinonychus?), etc. all have three natural attacks, which is a nice starting point. Critters with two natural attacks (giant crabs, normal apes) still aren't bad. Critters with only a single natural attack (boars, dogs, wolves) are less fun.
Note that the ability of a dog, wolf or worg to trip on a successful bite is not listed as a Special Attack (and therefore not auto-forbidden), nor as a Special Quality (and therefore possibly allowed). Check your GM for details. If it's 'go,' then take those puppies, because free trip attacks on a bite make for some useful 'battlefield control' skeletons that can put some weaker humanoid type foes on their butts for your melee characters to finish off. If the GM says no, then shun them.
The guidelines on what sort of weapons and armor a skeleton can equip and use are, uh, bare bones, at best. One GM might limit them to simple weapons, in which case, a humanoid skeleton with a crossbow might be more useful than one running up and attempting to feebly claw at someone. Others might rule that 'weapons' means *all* weapons, in which case, give those suckers spiked chains or guns or scorpion whips or bolas or whatever fun thing you don't feel like spending an Exotic Weapon proficiency on. (Good luck finding such a GM.) Others might take literally the 'wield whatever weapon it was holding' notion from the old days, and have the skeleton only be proficient in whatever weapons were in it's hands when it died (so make sure to put something fun in it's dead little hands before you animate!). Still others might rule that it retains only the proficiencies the original owner of them bones had, which means that Commoner skeletons will be garbage, while Warrior skeletons could use composite longbows or longspears, to good effect. (Even if they are lower HD, and suck with those longspears, they can still provide flank-buddies, or possibly have some Aid Other applications, depending on how their Int 0 processes orders, given their technical inability to understand spoken language, or tell which end of a sword is sharp... Different GMs will have different interpretations of what 'mindless' means in the context of something that displays proficiencies and can apparently understand spoken languages, despite not having any of it's own).
Note that the weapon / armor thing doesn't seem limited to humanoids, so if that lion / wolf / bear skeleton seems to be a fun thing to keep around, spend that 200 gp. giving it a custom-fitted 'chain shirt barding' or whatever. You can save the armor for the next skeleton bear if it 'dies' anyway.
Handing the dire ape skeleton a large greatsword would technically be possible as well, by the rules as written, but I'd make a frowny face, wag my finger and tell you to pull the other one. Your GM might be more open-minded about such matters. :)
While it might be drool-worthy to consider a troglodyte or lizardfolk or sahuagin, thanks to their sick (for their CR) natural armor bonuses, they totally lose those, whether skeleton or zombie, so don't even get excited (although trogs and sahuagin have decent natural attacks...) about the AC. Again, unlike 3.X, calling up Outsiders to gank them and make zombies with ridonkulous NA is not an option in Pathfinder, and an Annis zombie isn't going to have any more natural armor than an Ogre.
At mid levels, trolls aren't bad skeletons. Humanoid (cheaper to arm and armor, if that's your thing) and yet with decent natural attacks. A troll skeleton in a breastplate wielding a large composite longbow and a large longspear can be pretty funky, reaching all over the battlefield. (Note that trolls lose rend and regeneration, but they do retain some decent attributes, natural weaponry, large size and reach.)
I prefer animals, even with the doubled cost for armor, just because it's less offensive to the locals than humanoids (even monstrous regionally loathed humanoids, like gnolls), and there's less arguing over what weapons the animals can use (unless you try the dire ape w/ oversized greatsword thing, in which case, good luck with that).
Thanks for reply! The problem with using weapons and armor on the skele/zom is that the Raise The Dead ability only lasts 4 rounds for me. That dosent really give me the time to arm the creature i summon. Though i suppose i could keep a large size greatsword or something on me and hand it to a zombie giant i summon the turn he appears.
Also, while I am a necromancer type, im actualy playing a good character. Im sort of a voodoo shaman that talks to the spirits. I flavor my skeleton summoning as me letting the spirits take corporeal form to get revenge on the bad guys that wronged them.
Due to that, I dont plan on ammassing huge armies of undead to follow me around. I've done that on a previous character, and it was a bookkeeping nightmare.
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If you're just using the Raise the Dead ability, it's not clear that you can create a non-humanoid skeleton/zombie at all.
I don't think it would be out of line to allow an animal skeleton/zombie or something, but the 'generic' skeleton/zombie is assumed to be an ex-human, in the Bestiary.
If your GM is cool with calling up non-humanoid skeletons and zombies with Raise the Dead, I'd stick to the various multiple attack animals, like dire apes, big cats, dire wolverines, etc.
My DM and i figured that since it wasnt clear, i could summon a skeleton or zombie of any creature legal for the template and fitting the HD requrements of the ability. Thats why Ive been looking around for the strongest natural attackers at each HD increment.
At 3HD its looking like the wolverine is the winner.
I thought you summoned a skeleton or zombie not creating one, am I interpreting this wrong?
I thought you summoned a skeleton or zombie not creating one, am I interpreting this wrong?
Its a summoning, but Set was also giving advice on undead made through Animate Dead