Can wizards prepare ALL cantrips for at-will casting?


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

A single casting of mnemonic enhancer can allow you to prepare 6 0-level spells above and beyond what you would normally be able to prepare.

However, cantrips never run out and, as far as I can tell, dropping/switching out your prepared spells the next day is optional.

Does this mean, RAW, I could prepare every wizard cantrip in the game and keep them prepared forever, thereby having more cantrip ability than even a high level sorcerer?

I know it's cheese, but is there anything in the rules to prevent it?

Liberty's Edge

As usual, my first answer is: "Yes, there is a DM."
But I suspect you will not be satisfied with this answer. Which always puzzles me.

Nevertheless, there's more. In the Wizard description, it says that "Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table 3-16 under 'Spells per Day'"

It does not say you may prepare more than that per day. Nor does Mnemonic Enhancer provide an exception to this rule. So I see you have a couple of options:
1) Keep your six extra 0-level spells and prepare no spells for the next day. If you prepare no new spells at all, then the limit on your prepared cantrips per day does not kick in. You CAN have them prepared forever... but you won't be able to prepare any of your other spells without losing them.
2) Lose the extra cantrips and prepare new spells for the day. If you prepare spells for a new day, then you are limited in the number of cantrips you can prepare for that day. You must discard cantrips until you're down to the right number.

Grand Lodge

Mnemonic enhancer doesn't prepare the extra spells as 0-level spells in the wizard's 0-level slots as shown on Table 3-16, so the wizard can't cast them at will with his Cantrips ability. When he casts those six 0-level spells, they're gone.

The Exchange

Quote:
I know it's cheese, but is there anything in the rules to prevent it?

The last line of the spell description...

'... In either event, the spell or spells prepared or retained fade after 24 hours (if not cast).'

That doesn't mean they don't fade if they are cast... it means they fade after 24 hours, or earlier if they're cast before then. Since cantrips aren't 'used' when cast, it just means they last 24 hours, then fade.

So you'd have to cast the spell once per day to keep up your entire repetoire of cantrips.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
ProfPotts wrote:
Quote:
I know it's cheese, but is there anything in the rules to prevent it?

The last line of the spell description...

'... In either event, the spell or spells prepared or retained fade after 24 hours (if not cast).'

That doesn't mean they don't fade if they are cast... it means they fade after 24 hours, or earlier if they're cast before then. Since cantrips aren't 'used' when cast, it just means they last 24 hours, then fade.

So you'd have to cast the spell once per day to keep up your entire repetoire of cantrips.

Arg. I got excited at the new loop hole and didn't bother to finish reading the spell text.

I'm getting more and more careless it seems. I need to step up.


ProfPotts wrote:
So you'd have to cast the spell once per day to keep up your entire repetoire of cantrips.

And this, I think I'm fine with. I can even see a wizard actually doing it during 'downtime' simply to have all those nifty little 'make every-day living easier' spells at hand when they come up.

During an adventure, you probably want that fourth-level slot being more productive.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Even if this loop hole DID work... I'm not sure trading a 4th level spell for ANY number of free cantrips is a good idea.

Cantrips are fun and handy, but hardly powerful. I'd take pretty much any 4th level spell once per day over any number of extra cantrips if I were a 7th level wizard.


Yeah... I actually really like getting the extra cantrips with the extra spells known as a sorcerer at lower level -- but I think I could get more use out of that fourth level spell slot (and a 50gp gem) than a lot of cantrips.

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:

Even if this loop hole DID work... I'm not sure trading a 4th level spell for ANY number of free cantrips is a good idea.

Cantrips are fun and handy, but hardly powerful. I'd take pretty much any 4th level spell once per day over any number of extra cantrips if I were a 7th level wizard.

Well, the idea behind the loophole is that you could cast the 4th-level spell once and get six cantrips forever afterwards. Or cast it three times on a down day and then have pretty much all the cantrips.

But we established that this doesn't work, so it's all good.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

@Abraham spalding: It's a 50 gp ivory plaque focus component, so it's not used up.

Because the duration is instantaneous, you can't even use Extend Spell on it to have it last 48 hours. However, you can do some creative scheduling with nap stack or a ring of sustenence: cast mnemonic enhancer, rest for two hours, prepare another 4th-level spell. So you are able to have an extra six cantrips prepared if you want. Actually, you can also cast Extended mage armor and Extended false life (both 2 hours/caster level) before resting and prepare other 2nd- and 3rd- level spells, while still having them remain active for 12 more hours (wizard 7).


Dragonchess Player wrote:

@Abraham spalding: It's a 50 gp ivory plaque focus component, so it's not used up.

Didn't say it was -- just that I had better uses for it than 6 cantrips.

Besides the little lines in the magic section that state spells cast in the last 8 hours are not regained kind of counters part of your idea.

Not that you can't do it -- just that it takes more timing and planning.


Honestly, if someone in your game is trying to game the system to memorize all the cantrips at once... just let him. It's not going to affect your game one bit.


Ravingdork wrote:


Arg. I got excited at the new loop hole and didn't bother to finish reading the spell text.

I'm getting more and more careless it seems. I need to step up.

You're spending time just looking for loopholes? About Cantrips? Really? Damn. You must have more time than I do...

Of course, I'm playing hooky / taking a mental break from grading papers... I do have more time than I thought! Time to go spend it usefully :)

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