The Core Rulebook does not list starting wealth for the NPC classes, including Aristocrat. Does anyone know how much gold a level 1 Aristocrat would begin with?
It's difficult to answer that, it's an npc class... A king can be a level 1 aristocrat, and so can a wealthy merchant, a mayor, a baron etc.
Obviously being aristocrat usually mean a lot of wealth, though sometimes they can be poor but have a great political influence...
Since it's a NPC class give it the wealth you think he might have depending of his social function (a king is usually rich, not necessarily in money but he has land ;) )
The Core Rulebook does not list starting wealth for the NPC classes, including Aristocrat. Does anyone know how much gold a level 1 Aristocrat would begin with?
Check out this post from Mr. James Jacobs. :)
Or they can be poor and have little influence.
Obviously being aristocrat usually mean a lot of wealth, though sometimes they can be poor but have a great political influence...
That's more a commoner description no ?
I think NPC class are defined by their social role... Someone with little wealth and influence are more a commoner than an aristocrat... ;)
Or they can be poor and have little influence.
Obviously being aristocrat usually mean a lot of wealth, though sometimes they can be poor but have a great political influence...
That's more a commoner description no ?
I think NPC class are defined by their social role... Someone with little wealth and influence are more a commoner than an aristocrat... ;)
True, but the point was that there is a vast difference between the wealth and influence between the son of the local Baron and a Princess Royal of Keleshite Empire.
Both are Aristocrats, but even so, they might have a small difference in their available starting weath and importance.
You could always start them out with the rich parents trait.
True, but the point was that there is a vast difference between the wealth and influence between the son of the local Baron and a Princess Royal of Keleshite Empire.
Both are Aristocrats, but even so, they might have a small difference in their available starting weath and importance.
Yes, you're right.
And I would add that Aristocrat and Commoner should stay NPC class... If you are a PC with a nobility title you don't have to gain level in the aristocrat class... You can be a fighter and a noble... ;)
I think NPC class should stay NPC class since they're not designed for players and they are really underpowered against PC class...
You can even give your players a free level of a NPC class without having to change the CR of your encounter... :p
Heck in my current campaign (RotRl) one of my player begin being the son of the Elf queen (no less !! :D ), we've worked on his background a lot and he start as a Runeblade (from Monte Cook's Collected Book of Experimental Might) with the wealth of a Runeblade, no more, no less... ;)
BG is fluff after all, and while sometimes his title will help in some ways, at other it will be a handicap...
Aristocrats can also be people nominally of the educated classes, but not actually personlly very wealthy. A lord's steward, for example, or even the lord's steward's clerk.
Also, consider with strict rules of first born inheritance, the second and third sons often got dick. Yea, they were of noble blood, but they lived on someone else's dime. No lands (no property) means no income, so no money. That's why many second sons would become knights, or seek offices or positions at court - they were aristocrats, but they had no property so had to find a job!
You could always start them out with the rich parents trait.
I have considered picking that trait up, if we decide we're going to use traits.
I'm guessing that there's not a lot of agreement on this, judging from all the different ideas -- though thank you to Lord Fyre for that post from Mr. Jacobs -- but I do appreciate a lot of the thoughts that have been posted here so far.
I fully agree with Loengrin and understand that I can be any class for 20 levels and claim to be a noble -- but I actually want to take 1 level in Aristocrat because I want some of the benefits it offers. Specifically, I'd like to pick up weapon proficiency with all martial weapons, and that really great skill list as class skills.
For gaining that benefit, I feel like I should actually have to cough up a level. I also do not have any objections to having 1 level of Aristocrat, given my character's likely background as it stands now.
I haven't found any player class that gives me both of those things: fighter's skill selection is crummy; rogues and bards can't use anything but light armor (I want medium at least); and rangers are too focused on physical skills and not as much on the RP-oriented skills I'm looking for. I could just select Cosmopolitan as a feat, but I'm not sure I want to give a feat up to gain just 2 skills when a level would give me all the ones I want, plus martial weapon proficiency too ...
I fully agree with Loengrin and understand that I can be any class for 20 levels and claim to be a noble -- but I actually want to take 1 level in Aristocrat because I want some of the benefits it offers. Specifically, I'd like to pick up weapon proficiency with all martial weapons, and that really great skill list as class skills.
You're aware that this skill class list is only effective when you take aristocrat level ?
If you want something akin to aristocrat you should consider one level in the cavalier class, it has a very noble favor, the martial weapons and good skills too... And a base attack bonus of +1, challenge 1/day, knight order (with more skills), mount and tactician... :p
And you can even consider taking more than one level in it since it is a very more powerful class than aristocrat ;)
I fully agree with Loengrin and understand that I can be any class for 20 levels and claim to be a noble -- but I actually want to take 1 level in Aristocrat because I want some of the benefits it offers. Specifically, I'd like to pick up weapon proficiency with all martial weapons, and that really great skill list as class skills.You're aware that this skill class list is only effective when you take aristocrat level ?
If you want something akin to aristocrat you should consider one level in the cavalier class, it has a very noble favor, the martial weapons and good skills too... And a base attack bonus of +1, challenge 1/day, knight order (with more skills), mount and tactician... :p
And you can even consider taking more than one level in it since it is a very more powerful class than aristocrat ;)
Darn. Beat me to it. :)
I fully agree with Loengrin and understand that I can be any class for 20 levels and claim to be a noble -- but I actually want to take 1 level in Aristocrat because I want some of the benefits it offers. Specifically, I'd like to pick up weapon proficiency with all martial weapons, and that really great skill list as class skills.You're aware that this skill class list is only effective when you take aristocrat level ?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that - you get the +3 bonus for a skill being a class skill if you have any levels in a class that has it as a class skill. One level of aristocrat is enough to get the bonus to all their skills, for the life of the character.
That being said, as you pointed out, a level of cavalier could make more sense, for the appropriate type of character.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that - you get the +3 bonus for a skill being a class skill if you have any levels in a class that has it as a class skill. One level of aristocrat is enough to get the bonus to all their skills, for the life of the character.
That being said, as you pointed out, a level of cavalier could make more sense, for the appropriate type of character.
That was my understanding as well -- they all become class skills for the duration of my 20-level character.
Still, someone else suggested Cavalier and I am considering it.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that - you get the +3 bonus for a skill being a class skill if you have any levels in a class that has it as a class skill. One level of aristocrat is enough to get the bonus to all their skills, for the life of the character.
That being said, as you pointed out, a level of cavalier could make more sense, for the appropriate type of character.
You gain the +3 if you put at least one point in that skills the moment you take level in the class...
For example you are a fighter 5 with 10 INT, you level, you choose to take this level in aristocrat class (making you fighter 5/aristocrat 1)
The aristocrat class specify :
class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Survival (Wis).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
So now you have 4 skills point to use, you put 1 point in Survival, 1 point in Diplomacy and 2 points in Knowledge (nobility), for these 3 skills you receive your +3 bonus.
Then you go adventuring again, you level again and choose to gain a fighter level (fighter 6/aristocrat 1), you have 2 skill points to use : you choose : 1 point in knowledge plane and 1 point in knowledg religion, you do NOT receive the +3 bonus in those skills since it's not on the fighter list... ;)
The rules specify : "You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into."
That's what I was trying to say... hope it's more clear now... :)
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by that - you get the +3 bonus for a skill being a class skill if you have any levels in a class that has it as a class skill. One level of aristocrat is enough to get the bonus to all their skills, for the life of the character.
That being said, as you pointed out, a level of cavalier could make more sense, for the appropriate type of character.
You gain the +3 if you put at least one point in that skills the moment you take level in the class...
For example you are a fighter 5 with 10 INT, you level, you choose to take this level in aristocrat class (making you fighter 5/aristocrat 1)
The aristocrat class specify :
class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Swim (Str), and Survival (Wis).Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
So now you have 4 skills point to use, you put 1 point in Survival, 1 point in Diplomacy and 2 points in Knowledge (nobility), for these 3 skills you receive your +3 bonus.
Then you go adventuring again, you level again and choose to gain a fighter level (fighter 6/aristocrat 1), you have 2 skill points to use : you choose : 1 point in knowledge plane and 1 point in knowledg religion, you do NOT receive the +3 bonus in those skills since it's not on the fighter list... ;)
The rules specify : "You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into."That's what I was trying to say... hope it's more clear now... :)
In this case you would get +3 to Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion), because you have a point in each skill and they are class skills for one of your classes. It doesn't matter which class gave you the skill points to take them.
However, you wouldn't get +3 to an untrained check against Knowledge (dungeoneering), nor does this change if you have some other class or racial ability that gives you +x to Knowledge (dungeoneering). The class skill bonus only kicks in if you have at least one actual rank in the skill.
In this case you would get +3 to Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion), because you have a point in each skill and they are class skills for one of your classes. It doesn't matter which class gave you the skill points to take them.
However, you wouldn't get +3...
Hu ? Are you sure of that ? 'cause I was sure that class skills depend on the class you take at the moment you level... Maybe some reminiscence from 3.5 though ;)
So I can make a fighter 5, take a level of rogue (fighter5/rogue1), take 5 more fighter level (fighter11/rogue1) and if, when I take my 11th level of fighter I put for the first time 1 point in Stealth I will have the +3 bonus ?
Looks like it is an appeal for dip classing to me ;)
5And sorry for the threadjack ;) )
In this case you would get +3 to Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion), because you have a point in each skill and they are class skills for one of your classes. It doesn't matter which class gave you the skill points to take them.
However, you wouldn't get +3...
Hu ? Are you sure of that ? 'cause I was sure that class skills depend on the class you take at the moment you level... Maybe some reminiscence from 3.5 though ;)
So I can make a fighter 5, take a level of rogue (fighter5/rogue1), take 5 more fighter level (fighter11/rogue1) and if, when I take my 11th level of fighter I put for the first time 1 point in Stealth I will have the +3 bonus ?
Looks like it is an appeal for dip classing to me ;)
5And sorry for the threadjack ;) )
Yep. From the "Acquiring skills" section: " If you select a level in a new class, all of its class skills are automatically added to your list of class skills, and you gain a +3 bonus on these skills if you have ranks in them."
It's significantly changed from 3.5, where the level you gained the skill points at did matter.