Just curious as to what people prefer and why.
I've trialled magus and while it's action economy is great it's really struggling to go it's job on a full attack (spellstrike is great on the other hand)
Bud ump bump.
I think my favorite is the much maligned Draconic Disciple. While you don't get the base attack bonus of a full fighter the strength makes up for the sheer to hit. Our usual DM likes to use a lot of invisibility, so the blind sense comes in VERY handy, especially with true strike.
Self buffing alchemists can be pretty handy, either as ranged or melee. I prefer ranged because it goes better with bombs , but if the fights going long a buffed alchemist can send their ac into the stratosphere.
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My favorite is the Arcane Archer type....though it's not melee so I'm not sure if it applies to this conversation.
This build:
Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/Eldritch Knight 3/Arcane Archer +3/Eldritch Knight +7/Arcane Archer +1
Why I like: An absolute damage hose...plus pretty much full casting and full attacks. Imbue Arrow with Anti-Magic Field annihilates opposing casters. Of course you're not a "real" wizard, but you end up doing pretty well for yourself in a lot of areas.
My favorite melee "gish" build is:
Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10
Why I like: Very strikery. Strength bumps and 8th level spells by the end. Excellent saves. Real nice HP. Flavorful and fun to RP.
This is not optimal, but I really like the flavor of:
Fighter 1/Wizard 6/Eldritch Knight 2/Duelist 5/Eldritch Knight +6
Why I like: Does well fighting unarmored. Really fun to roleplay as an intelligent swashbuckler type with some serious tricks up his sleeve. Plus, it's not as much of a power-build, so it fits in non-optimized games better, while still being pretty good.
And, of course:
Arcane Duelist 16/Dragon Disciple 4
Why I like: Does what it does and does it well.
Paladin. Because full BAB is the best BAB. Want those Power Attack bonuses as soon as you can get them. Get enough healing and stuff to remain standing, and can use spells up to lv4. With the absence of Practiced Spellcaster, feel that gishes end up rather weak in PF.
Friend of mine is playing a Magus, and he is kicking ass in a respectable manner. He always have something interesting to do with his round.
I hardly get the chance to play, and when I do it's been GMing...so most of this is more theme then function.
It may or may not quallify at all, but my favorite is the soulknife. Specifically the idea of being able to throw the mind blade. Gambit was always my favorite x-men...
More along the lines of what you're talking about...I recently statted up one of the badguys for RotRl as an antipaladin, specifically to use two weapon fighting with a bastard sword and touch of corruption (I'm not seeing a reason this wont work, so if I've missed something, someone please tell me). If anything I think it's going to be too nasty for the level of PCs the NPC is supposed to go up against...
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I will always have a warm spot for Eldritch Knights, even if they are suboptimal. The first one I ever made was the most useful party member. Due to the high Intelligence and careful skill allocation, combined with a Fighter's awesomeness at low levels, he was always able to do something useful (swim actually came up at one point, and the Full-Plate/Buckler Paladin was crying while my Gish was busy solo'ing a Shark 2 CR's higher than his level).
I really like the Barbarian/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple approach. Because sometimes you simply CANNOT have enough Strength.
Clerics and Druids are fun too, but there spell lists aren't as interesting as arcane ones.
Look up Abjurant Champion in Complete Mage. It's rather interesting.
Wizard 8/Fighter 1/Abjurant Champion 5 + 6 more levels of wizard.
Gives you an effective lvl 19 wizard with 13 BAB and some cool tricks for melee combat.
Abjurant Champion was one of my favorite things ever.....but it was so OP. Man...just thinking back on everything it did....I dunno how that was ever allowed. 3.5 was a wonderful place for Gishes.
If you're allowing things like that, you can do some craaaazy things with martial arcanists.
I like the Duskblade, myself. Or the Psychic Warrior. Those are my preferred gish classes.
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I hated 3.5 just because it was so overpowered, at least once you introduced all the splat books. Even a few books introduced abilities that were just crazy.
That said, I still wanna try out a Ninja/Magus/Arcane Trickster. Ki pool + Sneak attack would really help you get the most out of Spell Combat. Might have some accuracy problems, but overall I don't think it'd be that bad.
I played a sorcerer/fighter back in 3.5 with the reserve feats. It was pretty fun. I've been wanting to play a ranger/wizard, also a rogue/sorcerer/arcane trickster.
yea i mentioned ninja/magus/AT and witch/ninja/AT in another thread...they have alot of promise for some extreme versatility.
I think the ninja may have put some real life into the AT PrC.
Witch+fighter+eldritch knight=hexblade?
Witch+fighter+eldritch knight=hexblade?
Witch 1/Fighter 1/Witch +5/Eldritch Knight 5/Witch +2/Eldritch Knight +5/Fighter +1
Would make a pretty good Hexblade.
Am I the only one that thinks that the Hexblade is like... the weakest class ever? ;P
I was never very impressed with it.
Fighter/Bard
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Am I the only one that thinks that the Hexblade is like... the weakest class ever? ;P
The hexblade suffers a little because he came on the scene relatively early in 3.5's life. As R&D pushes the boundaries of the game, we learn that some things we thought were risky or potentially broken aren't. Other times, we learn things that look fine don't actually work in play.
Armored mages fall into the first category. Them seem really powerful, but in the long run they aren't. Spells and magic items allow an unarmored mage to build great defenses. The spell mage armor is as good as medium armor, and its duration allows most mages to keep it active at all times. If you compare the hexblade to the duskblade from PH 2, you can see how the thinking has changed.
Plain STR focused Druids.
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Bard all the way. They're the original, true level one Gish class, and were even before the APG.
Forget Duskblade, mock Eldrich Knight, screw the upstart Magus; walk into the dungeon and overwhelm everything with your aura of pure awesome. Afterwards, be sure to brag about it at the tavern, because unlike those pretenders, you can actually talk to people.
Bard = win.
I think it has to be sorceror/dragon disciple. With my groups houserules on claws (essentially unilimited uses) it is a real solid character so long as you are strength based. And there is something special about being to armwrestle cloud giants toward the end of your career.
I like the Duskblade, myself.Then I definitely would recommend you check out the Vanguard from Super Genius Games, if you haven't already - the duskblade was certainly one of the inspirations ......
I'm relatively satisfied with the DB even for Pathfinder, but I'll look into it, perhaps. See what it brings to the table.
For those that mentioned Hexblade, it is now a confirmed Magus Archetype, thanks to the new Player's Guide for the new Carrion Crown AP.
It's actually called hexcrafter
Bard all the way. They're the original, true level one Gish class, and were even before the APG.
Forget Duskblade, mock Eldrich Knight, screw the upstart Magus; walk into the dungeon and overwhelm everything with your aura of pure awesome. Afterwards, be sure to brag about it at the tavern, because unlike those pretenders, you can actually talk to people.
Bard = win.
Actually, Bard was the first PrC, in 1st edition, and you couldn't be one at level one, way back int he beginning, when dinosaurs ruled the earth and played 1st edition. To be a bard, you had to be a fighter, thief, druid, then bard.
The FIRST ever Gish, was the Basic 'Elf', which the magus mirrors almost exactly, plus adding spell combat.
Bard all the way. They're the original, true level one Gish class, and were even before the APG.
Forget Duskblade, mock Eldrich Knight, screw the upstart Magus; walk into the dungeon and overwhelm everything with your aura of pure awesome. Afterwards, be sure to brag about it at the tavern, because unlike those pretenders, you can actually talk to people.
Bard = win.
Actually, Bard was the first PrC, in 1st edition, and you couldn't be one at level one, way back int he beginning, when dinosaurs ruled the earth and played 1st edition. To be a bard, you had to be a fighter, thief, druid, then bard.
The FIRST ever Gish, was the Basic 'Elf', which the magus mirrors almost exactly, plus adding spell combat.
I thought it was fighter, thief, wizard...
To become a bard, a human or half-elf had to begin with very high ability scores: Strength 15+, Wisdom 15+, Dexterity 15+ and Charisma 15+, Intelligence 12+ and Constitution 10+. These daunting requirements made bards one of the rarest character classes. Bards began the game as fighters, and after achieving 5th level (but before reaching 8th level), they had to dual-class as a thief, and after reaching 5th level as a thief (but before reaching 9th level), they had to dual-class again to druid. Once becoming a druid, the character then progressed as a bard.
I thought it was fighter, thief, wizard...Bard all the way. They're the original, true level one Gish class, and were even before the APG.
Forget Duskblade, mock Eldrich Knight, screw the upstart Magus; walk into the dungeon and overwhelm everything with your aura of pure awesome. Afterwards, be sure to brag about it at the tavern, because unlike those pretenders, you can actually talk to people.
Bard = win.
Actually, Bard was the first PrC, in 1st edition, and you couldn't be one at level one, way back int he beginning, when dinosaurs ruled the earth and played 1st edition. To be a bard, you had to be a fighter, thief, druid, then bard.
The FIRST ever Gish, was the Basic 'Elf', which the magus mirrors almost exactly, plus adding spell combat.
Actually it was just Fighter 5,6,or 7, then Thief 5, 6, or 7, then straight into Druid, which then counted as Bard. All Bards gained druidic powers as a Druid of the same level, up to 12h level for some reason. Then they didn't gain the spells of a 13th level Druid until 23rd level.
Of course you could only become a Bard at all if you met the ability prerequisites, which were insanely hard to attain, given the die-rolling conventions of the time. I think it was about the equivalent of a 30-point buy in Pathfinder standards, and that was just to meet the minimum requirements.
Edit: ninja'd
To become a bard, a human or half-elf had to begin with very high ability scores: Strength 15+, Wisdom 15+, Dexterity 15+ and Charisma 15+, Intelligence 12+ and Constitution 10+. These daunting requirements made bards one of the rarest character classes. Bards began the game as fighters, and after achieving 5th level (but before reaching 8th level), they had to dual-class as a thief, and after reaching 5th level as a thief (but before reaching 9th level), they had to dual-class again to druid. Once becoming a druid, the character then progressed as a bard.
Huh, learn something new every day.
I like the following:
Witch 5/Fighter 1/ EK 10/ Witch 4
Bard 7/ Dragon Disciple 10/ Bard 3
Magus 20
Magus 9/ Arcane Archer 2/ EK 9
Magus 7/ Rogue(or assassin) 3/ Arcane Trickster 10
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I've recently had someone play a duskblade in my Pathfinder campaign. And he was definitely overpowering the other melee, a greatsword wielding fighter (he also had a bit of luck on attack/damage rolls). At lvl 3 he was able to take on 1v1 most CR3/4 (quite a few ogres succumbed to him). The good will save also helped alot.
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I'm relatively satisfied with the DB even for Pathfinder, but I'll look into it, perhaps. See what it brings to the table.I like the Duskblade, myself.Then I definitely would recommend you check out the Vanguard from Super Genius Games, if you haven't already - the duskblade was certainly one of the inspirations ......
Sounds good! Love to hear what you think after playing it!